Looking at a sound spectrum and thinking about possible improvements for the sound. (Or better leave it as it is?)

[Marty Kasprzyk]

23 minutes ago, GoPractice said:

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Measurements do matter. How we take them, how we interpret them, how the data is processed is all important

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I'm beginning to think (new for me) that the minimum bowing distance to the bridge is important--the closer the better for getting a highly expressive instrument.

[David Beard]

1 hour ago, Marty Kasprzyk said:

I'm beginning to think (new for me) that the minimum bowing distance to the bridge is important--the closer the better for getting a highly expressive instrument.

A player can get different characters of sound by driving a tense bow close to the bridge versus more a flowing bow further away.   

I think it the freedom to choose within a wide range that is most valuable.  Rather than an instrument strongly favoring one balance over another.

[Don Noon]

2 hours ago, Marty Kasprzyk said:

I'm beginning to think (new for me) that the minimum bowing distance to the bridge is important--the closer the better for getting a highly expressive instrument.

Playing close to the bridge is one thing (i.e. the vibration input to the bridge).  What sounds come out has far more to do with the body acoustics.  A solid body violin would most likely be able to be played very close to the bridge, but wouldn't be very expressive.

[GoPractice]

5 hours ago, Marty Kasprzyk said:

I'm beginning to think (new for me) that the minimum bowing distance to the bridge is important--the closer the better for getting a highly expressive instrument.

Well, any location on the string is important for some of us. I used to say it was any usable location but some players really can get amazing - and let me be clear they exist ( not me ) - effects out of playing close to the bridge. I spend hours trying any combination of things and back off. There are some who practice the outrageous, the limits. That's what graduate school is for, I guess. Ask those who play your instruments to explore what might be there.

Depending on the responsiveness of the strings, playing closer ( not too near ) to the bridge can maximize the visible amplitude of the string, so much so that open string double stops will collide without much effort on many fine instruments. Faster the bow, gets quicker results, but I have seen super slow bowing with string collisions. But as one gets closer to the bridge from that point, more high frequency information is introduced into the string first as noise than more audible enhancements.

This effect can also be produced when a pure sound derived from playing on the edge is rolled into flat hair on the string. The sound is a bit more aggressive upclose but enhanced from the more pure "bell-ish" tone which may sound a little simple. The old school vibrato of starting with a static pitch ( no movement ) and easing in to the desired speed and width of a vibrato can be supplemented with the increased change in bowhair contact. This type of playing can be overused, so we tend to save it. Great on long notes. The Shosti string quartet 8 has many rapid ( and dramatic ) crescendos and in one ensemble we came in with a non-vibrato icy tone. We decided on a "trumpet" shaped crescendo to draw the listener in and increase loudly ( but clearly ) at the end of the phrase, simultaneously flattening our hair. It is helpful to work to shape every crescendo ( markings ) in a piece. Dynamically and tonally, they should all sound different because every passage should have an emotional affect on the listener. So the 2cm on the violin from the upper eyes to the bridge is important for such a piece. Floaty at the bridge is cool too. With a cello going wild, the more misty overtones will stay out of the tonal range of the cello allowing for more dramatic playing.

On the Shosti Piano quintet, the pianist challenged the strings to play as sonorous and beautiful as possible. I used a different violin and limited the movement in the contact point to about 1cm. That piano quintet required a completely different sound and the pianist was so lovely. But as individual players, we still had to match so we played with different different pressures and speeds. We mostly stayed away from the bridge, underplayed, and only blossomed to meet the piano at her peaks. Her touch was sooo elegant. The first violin part is high and unforgiving and it was difficult to uncross my eyes after the passage. When playing super high up the fingerboard, we do have to play much closer to the bridge to maintain a playable ratio for the string to vibrate more freely.

Because of the length and practical frequencies that are output on cello strings, there are more cello teachers that have kids ( college students ) playing nearly on the bridge. Have to say, physically playing super high notes on a cello is easier but requires immense work to make those notes sound free. I once had this weird neural/ mini- stroke episode where during a rehearsal a cellist in a piano trio was playing very high on the fingerboard and I was below in the hall. For most of the playing I clearly heard the sound from the stage. But for about 10 seconds it sounded as the entire hall filled with that sound and I could not locate the source of the sound with my ears. I saw the cellist on the stage but that particular passage in the octave was just glorious.

The more we have to work with, the more obsessive players can be. But there is a limit to how that specialized sound carries or can be used. I think the techniques mentioned above can be used in large rooms. Most audiences should be able to or notice some of the differences. There are performers who will exaggerate tonal qualities as if they were activating a guitar effects pedal - something like tone boost, a distortion, or fuzz box. I will do it too, but the subtle stuff is more exciting in the end. And sometimes we just play for each other. The 40+ bar/ measure crescendos in Beethoven can be exciting for some of us. 

[GoPractice]

2 hours ago, Don Noon said:

Playing close to the bridge is one thing (i.e. the vibration input to the bridge).  What sounds come out has far more to do with the body acoustics.  A solid body violin would most likely be able to be played very close to the bridge, but wouldn't be very expressive.

Yes, longer f- holes in general offer my playing more exploration of sound and texture.

You have a good point. In playing Zetas and Jordan electric violins, the string types matter if the player wants a "variety" of sounds. If the tonal shading, say sweeping up into the noise spectrum, can be expressive... It mostly becomes an effect.

I have played many with Helicores, Jargars, more steely strings and they produce a unique sound, but nor much variation. With Dominants and once with Obligatos ( a viola ) there is more variation in sound. The Zeta bridge looks like strings finger tips, so playing "on the bridge" would be more difficult.

Piezo pick ups are not so expressive, but that could just be my playing. Trying to visualize how it might be played what it would sound like... 

[Andreas Preuss]

On 3/30/2022 at 9:16 AM, Marty Kasprzyk said:

I'm beginning to think (new for me) that the minimum bowing distance to the bridge is important--the closer the better for getting a highly expressive instrument.

I wouldn’t think so. I know a maker whose instruments needed to be played almost on the bridge. While the sound was a kind of interesting there was basically no room to get a different sound. Comments from musicians were very divided. Some liked this sound a lot, others just got tired playing the instruments of this maker. 
 

Expression is a result of bowing and how the instrument reacts to different bowings, so not only close to the bridge.

[David Rosales]

Just heard an interview with composer Eric Funk about his project with a Hungarian violinist. They made a documentary about it. https://www.montanapbs.org/programs/TheViolinAlone/#:~:text=The unlikely pairing of two,notion of “the possible”.
 

The piece the composer wrote calls for the violinist to imitate various instruments of the orchestra and the violinist has to employ various techniques to achieve those sounds. Apparently, the man had to try out dozens of violins (and bows) to find a violin that could make all the sounds he wanted. I understand that the Strad he owns was not satisfactory for this particular project. If you look at some of the clips, it’s pretty amazing the different tone colors he can produce. One technique he uses is “ultra sul tasto” where he places the bow almost next to his left hand fingers to make a woodwind sound.