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Violin playability vs actual sound


Stephan
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8 hours ago, RolandS said:

1. As an engineer (and cellist) I assure you that Andreas Preuss is 100% correct:

"Bowing technique is the key to sound production".

2. "fingers are totally relaxed", for a good sound. 

1. ( but surely not a violin engineer... )

2. If fingers are totally relaxed you can't produce any sound.

I understand your desire to contribute and "share" but but when it comes to the more fundamental violin techniques it's advisable to stick to what you REALLY know. Many people learn by themselves and often, from what they gather on the Internet. We should not confuse them more than what's strictly needed as amateurs, adult ones in particular, have a tendency to rely too much on theory. 

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6 hours ago, Carl Stross said:

1. ( but surely not a violin engineer... )

2. If fingers are totally relaxed you can't produce any sound.

I understand your desire to contribute and "share" but but when it comes to the more fundamental violin techniques it's advisable to stick to what you REALLY know. Many people learn by themselves and often, from what they gather on the Internet. We should not confuse them more than what's strictly needed as amateurs, adult ones in particular, have a tendency to rely too much on theory. 

Define "violin engineer", and explain the relevance for a scientific analysis of the violin-human body system producing sound.

You comment very "surely", but based on conjecture.

Re 2: When quoting Andreas Preuss to express my agreement, I did not feel urged to go nitpicking about his less precise wording. 

Exactly, as I wrote here I did professional physics research - that is modelling, experimenting, measuring of the cello-human body system. My comment was on that basis. And on the basis of a professional cello playing education. To someone replying to a forum contribution, I suggest to REALLY read first, and minimize one's presumptions.

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8 hours ago, RolandS said:

1. Define "violin engineer", and explain the relevance for a scientific analysis of the violin-human body system producing sound.

2. You comment very "surely", but based on conjecture.

3. Re 2: When quoting Andreas Preuss to express my agreement, I did not feel urged to go nitpicking about his less precise wording. 

4. Exactly, as I wrote here I did professional physics research - that is modelling, experimenting, measuring of the cello-human body system.

5. My comment was on that basis. And on the basis of a professional cello playing education.

6. To someone replying to a forum contribution, I suggest to REALLY read first, and minimize one's presumptions.

1. Yes, My Lord ! Would that be all ?:lol:

2. Nothing wrong with that. It's how science works. And it's been proven to be true. You are NOT a violin engineer. 

3. Precise wording is important. For engineers...  :lol:   It's a BIG difference between relaxed and "totally relaxed". 

4. You did not "wrote here" and it does not matter. I suggest you do not threaten people here with your research or musical abilities- you'll have the surprise of your life. 

5. "that basis" is for the moment confined to your mind. I have no evidence of it and it really does not matter. I value common sense over paperwork. Most here think about the same. And you are on the wrong thread. Here, we're talking violin bowing...  :) :) :)   Violin bowing vely different from cello bowing.... :) :)  :) 

6. ??? I quoted and commented to the actual quotes. Don't you think I read it first ????? :) :) :) 

Avoid this sort of "lecturing" here :

As an engineer (and cellist) I assure you that Andreas Preuss is 100% correct: "Bowing technique is the key to sound production".>

Makes you sound like you're neither....

 

 

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I've received 2 reports concerning this discussion. It appears that each report complained about the other person who was reporting. You know who you are.

It seems to me that adults should be able to discuss subjects, even when they are passionate about the subject, without resorting to personal attacks and insults. Disagree but remain civil.

Please prove me right... and if I seem short, it simply reflects that I'm not happy starting my Sunday morning breaking up a verbal brawl.

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In earlier years of the 21st century Bein & Fushi produced a multi-DVD Ruggiero Ricci "Master Class" - this was near Ricci's final years. In the video Ricci proposed and demonstrated the hypothesis that Paganini had positioned his violin vertically (east-west, that is) to enable him to play some of his compositions.

Just saying!

https://www.worldcat.org/title/maestro-ruggiero-ricci-the-violin-virtuoso-of-the-20th-century/oclc/174964386

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Here are some good things.  

From Keith Hill, and talks about playability.  Not the exact thing I was trying to find on the site bur similar enough.  Look on the page for "BEHAVIORS  AND  PERCEPTUAL SOUND  QUALITIES  IN  VIOLINS, VIOLAS,  AND  CELLOS"

http://keithhillharpsichords.com/new-page-3

 

Here is some holding the fiddle flatter for high on the E string.  Nice sound, might be as much about weight at the tip.  Whatever works for you for the time being is ok (if it works), it will change and improve anyway, is my philosophy.  About 1:05

https://youtu.be/V3oUE2hKcpA?t=65

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/27/2022 at 2:32 PM, Bill Merkel said:

From Keith Hill, and talks about playability.  Not the exact thing I was trying to find on the site bur similar enough.  Look on the page for "BEHAVIORS  AND  PERCEPTUAL SOUND  QUALITIES  IN  VIOLINS, VIOLAS,  AND  CELLOS"

http://keithhillharpsichords.com/new-page-3

There are a lot of words here and some interesting observations, but what practical value does it have?

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