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Old violin ID


antero
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Dear all,

Please tell me what you think.

I believe it to beBOB, although rib joints are confusing. Scroll fluting goes all the way and the back of pegbox is also not that typical to Vogtland, but...

Are there grooves for ribs on back? Is that branding on back giving a useful  hint or rather not?

Both blocks seem to be replaced and edges doubled.

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I am sorry that the photos are pretty bad, again, so it makes is even more complicated...

Blocks and linings may be altered, that why I also mentioned the confusing rib joints - after all, a lot has been done inside, at some point.

The lower rib has been cut, but unclear, when. It once was definitely just one piece of wood.

Pease let me know if any new photo or measurement would help.

LOB is 359 mm.

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3 hours ago, Blank face said:

Maybe the ribs are set into grooves of the bottom?

I was wondering, too, about the grooves.

But really, unless you give a hint what/how to show, the one or two uploaded closeups pretty much show, what can be seen; a magnifying glass + my spectacles did not reveal more.

Would you disregard the letters, btw?

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2 hours ago, antero said:

I was wondering, too, about the grooves.

But really, unless you give a hint what/how to show, the one or two uploaded closeups pretty much show, what can be seen; a magnifying glass + my spectacles did not reveal more.

Would you disregard the letters, btw?

At some photos it looks as if there could be grooves at the outer ends of the bottom corners, but it's not to tell for sure. OTOH not all French violins have these.

A name branded under the button would be common for old French, often with "A Paris" (especially at Mirecourt made violinsB)), but here it looks more like a monogram, what is relative unusual.

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17 hours ago, Blank face said:

Compare this one, here the grooves are quite visible as Peter pointed out:

Thank you, I did.

Yes those grooves continued till the very tip of corner, and it can be seen, indeed.

I also have one of those, showed here a while ago and was diagnosed as "vieux Paris" of 18c.

This one is not like that. If the grooves shall always go till the very end of the plate corner (even at part depth) then this one does not have grooves.

I know that rib joints may be messy after many openings, this may also get them not parallel; this altogether made me think of BOB.

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11 hours ago, antero said:

This one is not like that. If the grooves shall always go till the very end of the plate corner (even at part depth) then this one does not have grooves.

No, the grooves don’t go always to the  very end, sometimes they stop with the rib ends. In this case they are only visible when the ribs are removed, and even then often not very clearly when they are shallow and filled with glue and dirt.

OTOH not all French bob instruments have this grooves, so this would be only one point from the identification list. But your photo proves that it‘s most probably not a South German violin.

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On 1/24/2022 at 11:45 PM, Blank face said:

OTOH not all French bob instruments have this grooves, so this would be only one point from the identification list. But your photo proves that it‘s most probably not a South German violin.

Well, for me, it opens the discussion again... while I am not in particular favor of one or another verdict  (just that it is a fairly good instrument :)), it would still be good to learn more.

Vieux Paris, again?

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/28/2022 at 6:40 PM, antero said:

Vieux Paris, again?

Vieux Paris, as far as I think it's usually meant, is old Paris before the revolution 1789. So if your violin was probably made after this date, and most probably not in Paris but in Mirecourt or another "provincial" place, it wouldn't fit  into this definition. 

 

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