John Alexander Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 I was watching this video on YouTube of the repair to a massively damaged violin. The luthier uses Titebond glue and insists that it is better than warm hide glue. I have not seen or heard this before. Is this an acceptable product to use? I am just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wood Butcher Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 Did the “luthier” have any recognised qualifications, or are they self taught and clueless? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bean Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 Yes, there is a lot of Fake News on You Tube! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedidjah de Vries Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 This was recently discussed: https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/350671-pva-glue-has-a-place-in-violin-makingrestoration-any-thoughts/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikos Matsablokos Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 2 hours ago, Wood Butcher said: Did the “luthier” have any recognised qualifications, or are they self taught and clueless? If the luthier that the OP mentions, is the same as the one that I posted below, then yes believe it or not that person has studied at the Cremona School of violin making. Which makes it even more absurd in my humble opinion... https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/350671-pva-glue-has-a-place-in-violin-makingrestoration-any-thoughts/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaseyLouque Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 I do not repair and will make no comments on it. They are excellent and very good restorers who do excellent repair work who can address validity if they choose to. @maestroKimon does occasionally come to this forum. He has a response on youtube about his use of whiteglue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Alexander Posted January 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 I thought I had inserted a link to the video. I’m trying here once again. If it doesn’t work, the luthier is Jerry Rosa of Rosa String Works in Missouri US. I don’t know if he is formerly trained or self taught or if his work is very good. I am not a luthier so I can’t fairly assess the quality. I am just curious and would like to learn more about violin making and repair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Alexander Posted January 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 Rosa String Works okay I think I finally figured out how to insert a link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 4 hours ago, John Alexander said: If it doesn’t work, the luthier is Jerry Rosa of Rosa String Works in Missouri US. I don’t know if he is formerly trained or self taught or if his work is very good. Based on the video, I would guess he wasn't formally trained in violin repair in any traditional way, but I suppose I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time). From his website: "Rosa String Works was born out of my desire to play and build my own acoustic instruments. Back in 1982 I couldn’t afford nor justify spending thousands of dollars on a mandolin since I was just a beginner. So I decided to build my own. I soon built another, then repairs started rolling in. The rest as they say is history." The (his?) violin illustrated on his website is (solid) purple BTW. In any case, I think the perils of titebond for violin repair and restoration was covered by the earlier discussion (and a several more before that) pretty well and also cites an alternate glue that may have been used by the classical makers for certain tasks (casein). The following link is to a single back crack repair, not a bunch of splinters, but it shows what's possible with traditional materials and methods. The repair was accomplished many years ago and time hasn't compromised it. A good hide glue bond tends to be stronger than the wood itself, does not leave a significant glue line and is not susceptible to "creep" like titebond. Link to old crack repair thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiddleDoug Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 I’ve seen lots of things on YouTube that aren’t too credible (aliens, free energy, etc.) and this ranks right up there. Could be that he’s a guitar guy. They use Titebond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Burgess Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 1 hour ago, John Alexander said: Rosa String Works I wonder why he didn't just tape and rubberband all the pieces in place, and then dip the whole fiddle in a bucket of Titebond? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 Rosa has a video where he strips the finish off a fiddle stains and refinishes it. He makes nice looking mandolins though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Alexander Posted January 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 He seems confident in the glue-up as he does not cleat most cracks. After a failed attempt at retouching he ends up stripping off the original varnish and air-brushing MinWax stain followed by oil varnish. Better than painting it purple I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 Here's the exciting Part 2 of Chocolate's (AKA Gluey) resurrection! https://youtu.be/yLDLFa5uPcc ...and Part 3! https://youtu.be/LAS5OO0zvtA ...and Part 4 Final: https://youtu.be/Gyb1cKfkjig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkwood Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 Rosa is fascinating to watch for a while in his videos. He's a character. But I often cringe when I see what he does. There are some projects he plows into without seeming to understand the instrument. Sometimes at the end of a restore he touches up old instruments by smearing stain directly on the worn places. I would not trust an instrument with him, but I do watch him sometimes and think how I would approach things differently. And no, I've never seen him use hide glue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerardM Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 What are your opinions on the Titebond hide glue cold application stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoGo Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 22 minutes ago, bkwood said: Rosa is fascinating to watch for a while in his videos. He's a character. But I often cringe when I see what he does. There are some projects he plows into without seeming to understand the instrument. Sometimes at the end of a restore he touches up old instruments by smearing stain directly on the worn places. I would not trust an instrument with him, but I do watch him sometimes and think how I would approach things differently. And no, I've never seen him use hide glue. https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/threads/110836-23-Loar-Setup-Video https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/threads/155222-RSW-s-Jerry-Rosa-amp-The-Mysterious-Sam-Bush-Upside-Down-Truss-Rod Here are two critical threads on mandolin forum that show his methods are not very accepted among mandolin makers (and restorers) who generally accept Titebond for some applications. He seems to sound quite impressive/persuasive in his videos on YT until knowledgeable folks start to ask questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wood Butcher Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 47 minutes ago, GerardM said: What are your opinions on the Titebond hide glue cold application stuff? Do not waste your time with this glue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Alexander Posted January 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 It is very difficult for a layperson to know if they’re dealing with a knowledgeable expert in any given field versus a hack who talks a good game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wood Butcher Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 25 minutes ago, John Alexander said: It is very difficult for a layperson to know if they’re dealing with a knowledgeable expert in any given field versus a hack who talks a good game. In this instance, I would suggest you look for long established businesses, which are personally recommended by numerous players. Ask around at your next gigs, soon you will have a shortlist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted January 22, 2022 Report Share Posted January 22, 2022 1 hour ago, John Alexander said: It is very difficult for a layperson to know if they’re dealing with a knowledgeable expert in any given field versus a hack who talks a good game. Yes, it can be. Even following Wood Butcher's advice isn't totally foolproof, but it's a heck of a lot better than nothing (or youtube)... there are quacks in all fields and some talk a convincing line of ----. Most of us don't hide their backgrounds/training/associates/past employment/approach/etc. I'd say read what's available (on their website or whatever). What's there, or not there, may be telling. Fact checking doesn't hurt either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Alexander Posted January 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 Fortunately, I have a very good and reputable local luthier, John Montgomery in Raleigh, NC. I’m pretty sure he knows his business and is quite reliable and trustworthy. But, Mr. Rosa has been in business for 40 years and seems to have many satisfied customers like the owner of this subject fiddle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted January 23, 2022 Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 3 hours ago, John Alexander said: Fortunately, I have a very good and reputable local luthier, John Montgomery in Raleigh, NC. I’m pretty sure he knows his business and is quite reliable and trustworthy. But, Mr. Rosa has been in business for 40 years and seems to have many satisfied customers like the owner of this subject fiddle. I don't wish to judge Mr Rosa's mandolin work. Concerning his violin work; My mother taught me that if I didn't have anything nice to say, I shouldn't say anything at all... Never did mind my mother all that well. The nicest thing I can say (and hope) is that I doubt this fella works on much anything violin related of quality... Stick with John and please tell him I said hello. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Alexander Posted January 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 Thanks Jeffrey. Your mom gave good advice. Just to be clear I was not considering Mr. Rosa for any violin work. I happened to come across his video on YouTube as I was searching for videos on violin restoration to watch. John Montgomery currently has one of my violins in his shop doing a complete restoration so it got me curious. I think he does quality work and I have no desire to use anyone else. I will be sure to pass along your greeting next time I visit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiaroscuro_violins Posted January 23, 2022 Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.