martin swan Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 3 hours ago, Ratcliffiddles said: I am assuming that these are new, right? ( the dendro-proof versions) "Impervious to Ratcliff" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Darnton Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 http://darntonviolins.com/prime-choice-modern-makers-think-they-need-the/ https://darntonviolins.com/wood-works-another-slab-cut-cello-top/ 250 years and just a couple of unimportant small cracks. The slab tops I have seen have been absurdly intact for their age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasterercaster Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 2 hours ago, Flattmountain said: I’m inviting you to explain yourself as to why you feel your argument is valid and helpful in this setting setting=violin making forum validity=very important for violin makers to analyse and question images, and the text which accompanies them How do you know who flipped the image first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Cramer Posted January 15, 2022 Report Share Posted January 15, 2022 5 hours ago, martin swan said: Surely both are (fakes) by the same maker ...? Different f-holes but same model, workmanship, purfling, varnish and apparently arching I'm amazed that Martin Swan can pick that up from such terrible photos, but people like he & jacobsaunders are pretty amazing. Why don't you take some better photos and post them? If you're not sure about how to do that, Rue provided an excellent sticky article about how it's done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron1 Posted January 15, 2022 Report Share Posted January 15, 2022 On 1/14/2022 at 10:19 AM, jacobsaunders said: One piece cello backs don't occur (in my expierience) unless they are on the slab, 'cos trees dont grow big enough American made- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipKT Posted January 15, 2022 Report Share Posted January 15, 2022 Fwiw the loveliest cello I ever owned was a breathtaking Stanley Kiernoziak from the Lee shop in Chicago and it had a one piece back, and one piece backs were pretty common from that shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strad O Various Jr. Posted January 15, 2022 Report Share Posted January 15, 2022 I had a post war FRAMUS stand up bass with a one piece back, not slab cut and definitely not plywood. Hard to believe, I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin swan Posted January 15, 2022 Report Share Posted January 15, 2022 7 hours ago, Al Cramer said: I'm amazed that Martin Swan can pick that up from such terrible photos, but people like he & jacobsaunders are pretty amazing. Why don't you take some better photos and post them? If you're not sure about how to do that, Rue provided an excellent sticky article about how it's done. Thanks for the compliment but Peter pointed it out before me ... And all without the aid of his special skills too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cellopera Posted January 15, 2022 Report Share Posted January 15, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasterercaster Posted January 15, 2022 Report Share Posted January 15, 2022 15 hours ago, Flattmountain said: I’m inviting you to explain yourself as to why you feel your argument is valid and helpful in this setting 13 hours ago, plasterercaster said: setting=violin making forum validity=very important for violin makers to analyse and question images, and the text which accompanies them How do you know who flipped the image first? Your move, grasshopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flattmountain Posted January 15, 2022 Report Share Posted January 15, 2022 22 hours ago, plasterercaster said: setting=violin making forum validity=very important for violin makers to analyse and question images, and the text which accompanies them How do you know who flipped the image first? Your definition and mine of valid analysis differ greatly. The OPs question was on everyone’s opinion on slab cut cellos… your “analysis” was a snarky comment on the supposed asymmetry of said cellos (which is, by the way, a common logical mistake called red herring). I then pointed out the fact that there some lens warping, and you chose to go on by editing the image in your favor. (Generally people like the op don’t waste time with gimmicks when asking for opinions on a forum like this. He would gain nothing.) my question is, what are you personally gaining by this completely irrelevant debate, other than a lesson in effective reasoning? Keep in mind that you have taken the topic far from the qualities of slab cut in instrument making before using “violin making discussion” to your list of validations. your move ladybug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flattmountain Posted January 15, 2022 Report Share Posted January 15, 2022 8 hours ago, cellopera said: This is beautiful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelbow Posted January 15, 2022 Report Share Posted January 15, 2022 @plasterercaster @Flattmountain (MOD HAT ON) Dear Both, This is enough please. If you want to continue arguing please move it to your private messages. Regards, Shelbow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flattmountain Posted January 15, 2022 Report Share Posted January 15, 2022 Just now, Shelbow said: @plasterercaster @Flattmountain (MOD HAT ON) Dear Both, This is enough please. If you want to continue arguing please move it to your private messages. Regards, Shelbow Thank you shelbow! very sorry this got out of hand. Lots of love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violadamore Posted January 15, 2022 Report Share Posted January 15, 2022 I prefer slab-cut brisket. [Wanders out to check BBQ pit.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin swan Posted January 15, 2022 Report Share Posted January 15, 2022 On 1/14/2022 at 8:53 PM, Michael Darnton said: . That's a cool cello! Michael have you ever seen bookmatched slab cut tops like the OP's instruments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Darnton Posted January 15, 2022 Report Share Posted January 15, 2022 @martin swan No. Usually they look like scraps gathered off the floor. One years ago was eight pieces, all different. I would think that if you were going to take the care to find a matching piece (from the other side of the same log?) you'd have the resources to use a normal top, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin swan Posted January 16, 2022 Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 2 hours ago, Michael Darnton said: @martin swan No. Usually they look like scraps gathered off the floor. One years ago was eight pieces, all different. I would think that if you were going to take the care to find a matching piece (from the other side of the same log?) you'd have the resources to use a normal top, right? Yes, you would think ... To make a slab cut top with two bookmatched pieces seems like a major misunderstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Sigworth Posted January 16, 2022 Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 On 1/14/2022 at 12:51 PM, jacobsaunders said: everything in America is bigger, isn't it Especially in Texas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Cramer Posted January 16, 2022 Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 Interesting exchange between M.Darnton & M.Swan. I read postings here a lot because I'm interested in learning how to actually see these instruments, and these guys are masters. My question is: in the OP pictures, isn't the left instrument a single piece back, and the the right instrument a 2-piece back (which do look they're bookmarked, which I think I understand why that's weird, because if the log was thick enough for a single piece slap cut, why would you split it?). The other things I was wondering about the split-back right instrument concerns the button. It looks like split is canted so that the button is part of the left side. Is this something people used to do? Many thanks to michael & martin and sorry if I'm bothering you with stupid questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Darnton Posted January 16, 2022 Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 @Al CramerYes, the button is weird. With the distortion it is hard to know if the centerline or the button is the off center one. No, thats not a thing; someone had too much to drink before plotting that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin swan Posted January 16, 2022 Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 7 hours ago, Al Cramer said: My question is: in the OP pictures, isn't the left instrument a single piece back, and the the right instrument a 2-piece back (which do look they're bookmarked, which I think I understand why that's weird, because if the log was thick enough for a single piece slap cut, why would you split it?). I was referring to the tops rather than the backs ... I've just never seen a bookmatched 2-piece slab cut top on a genuinely old instrument. It seems a very strange thing to do unless you have no understanding of the tradition you're trying to fake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buko Posted January 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 Indeed a bit weird. I guess the Testore cello Sgarabotto copied looked like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Darnton Posted January 16, 2022 Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 OK, strangely, the center seam is off center, the button more in the middle. I have never seen that. Do you own one or both of these cellos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buko Posted January 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 This is mine. The other one belongs to my colleague. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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