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Dear MN members. 

I have been following the forum for a long time. I have learned a lot. I would like to know your opinions on this violin. I have permission to publish the photos from the owner, who offers the violin. LOB is 35,5 cm.

Thank you in advance for your opinions and comments!

Peter

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5 minutes ago, chiaroscuro_violins said:

Hi Peter! 

Looks French to me, but I'm just guessing for my own entertainment and learning.  Please defer to the experts.  

I wonder if the enormous cleat on the back is intended for tonal improvements more than structural.  I can't imagine any reason to make a single cleat of that heft unless the back was too thin/light at the center.  Am I missing something?  

Thanks! I am not a luthier, but i was also interested in the method of fixation. When i is a fixation at all. 

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35 minutes ago, chiaroscuro_violins said:

I see where you're coming from Jacob and of course I think you're right.  But I can't see this rib corner as anything but mitered.  

1763001937_ScreenShot2022-01-06at12_18_48PM.png

Maybe one of the (relative rare) outside mould constructed Markneukirchen/Schönbach. I can’t find anything French with purfling, scroll or inside blackened pegbox.

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1 hour ago, chiaroscuro_violins said:

…The only reason I thought it was French is the rib corners and linings…I didn't know that any Markies were built with an outside mould up until now…

What makes you think that this one was built in an outside mold?

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Just curious, is this just an optical illusion or is it repair (or maybe a re-shaping) of the treble f-hole?   I can't see the bass f-hole well enough to tell if it's on both sides or not.  

I am also on the "what's up with the giant cleat" team! 

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2 hours ago, chiaroscuro_violins said:

The lower bass side corner appears to be mitered, and the linings aren't let in to the corner blocks….

I’m not sure what you mean when you say “the lower bass side corner appears to be mitered,” but to me it looks like the C bout ribs were glued to the blocks first and the lower bout ribs were glued over them, making the rib corner joints on the C bout sides of the corners.  And I think that this is a sure sign of an inside mold.  And I think that the rib corner joint is centered when an outside mold is used.  I hope someone corrects me if I am wrong.

I don’t think linings let into, or not let into, the corners blocks is a direct consequence of either an inside or outside mold.

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28 minutes ago, Brad Dorsey said:

And I think that the rib corner joint is centered when an outside mold is used.  I hope someone corrects me if I am wrong.

The order ribs are attached are the same way either inside or outside mould and therefore the mitre looks very similar. This can be observed at every ordinary Mirecourt trade violin.

Here is a Schönbach violin with similar mitred rib joints and equilateral corner blocks.

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I had formed the impression that 'Cornerblockology' is only a good guide up to the early part of C20th after which factories started to take over from the cottage industries and the various construction methods become harder to distinguish? Is that a reasonable view?

So is Blank Face's 'Made in Czechoslovakia' violin shown, being a bit later, a progression from the b.o.b. cottage industry product to (maybe a 'factory'?) using moulds? 

What sort of age do peolpe think for the OP violin? - from Jacob's response, I would infer early 1900s?

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23 minutes ago, Bob K said:

I had formed the impression that 'Cornerblockology' is only a good guide up to the early part of C20th after which factories started to take over from the cottage industries and the various construction methods become harder to distinguish? Is that a reasonable view?

So is Blank Face's 'Made in Czechoslovakia' violin shown, being a bit later, a progression from the b.o.b. cottage industry product to (maybe a 'factory'?) using moulds? 

What sort of age do peolpe think for the OP violin? - from Jacob's response, I would infer early 1900s?

Yes, my old “Quiz for Addie” thread was essentially a guide to divide up 19th C. Markneukirchen/Schönbach trade violins from Mittenwald ones. 20th C. gets more complicated. OP violin as you say early 20th.

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4 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

Yes, my old “Quiz for Addie” thread was essentially a guide to divide up 19th C. Markneukirchen/Schönbach trade violins from Mittenwald ones. 20th C. gets more complicated. OP violin as you say early 20th.

Thank you for your opinion! Is it possible to conclude from the photos that it is a master violin? Or it is a pure "Dutzenarbeit".

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On 1/6/2022 at 8:50 PM, Jeny Mahon said:

Just curious, is this just an optical illusion or is it repair (or maybe a re-shaping) of the treble f-hole?   I can't see the bass f-hole well enough to tell if it's on both sides or not.  

I am also on the "what's up with the giant cleat" team! 

 

Speaking of interesting fixes - these caught my eye. Something like this must have taken a lot of work...

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22 minutes ago, chiaroscuro_violins said:

... if you can see the repair... then it didn't take a LOT of work...at least not comparitively [sic].

Compared to what?

Both inlays are very well fitted.  The triangular one at the top would not be too difficult to fit, but I think the four-sided one at the throat would be very challenging.

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