Carl Stross Posted December 28, 2021 Report Share Posted December 28, 2021 An illuminating insight into the thinking of experts such as Robin Aitchison, Andrew Ryan and Samuel Zygmuntowicz : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NjzERkmRV8&t=5338s couple of more interesting videos there such as : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08l1A8K_tMQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davide Sora Posted December 28, 2021 Report Share Posted December 28, 2021 Thanks Carl for the links. I would like to know, will these videos remain available on the Oberlin Youtube channel indefinitely or will they only be visible for a limited time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Darnton Posted December 28, 2021 Report Share Posted December 28, 2021 I would be interested to hear what people here think are the takeaways from the video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scordatura Posted December 28, 2021 Report Share Posted December 28, 2021 On 12/28/2021 at 5:22 AM, Davide Sora said: Thanks Carl for the links. I would like to know, will these videos remain available on the Oberlin Youtube channel indefinitely or will they only be visible for a limited time? Davide. I wondered the same thing. Fan Tao and the powers that be must have voted to make it public. I have considered going to the live acoustics workshop in the summer but haven't been able to fit it in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter K-G Posted December 29, 2021 Report Share Posted December 29, 2021 16 hours ago, Michael Darnton said: I would be interested to hear what people here think are the takeaways from the video. "Top makers", polite discussions for tentative consensus, leading to zero sum game. If everyone agrees all the time, not much takeaways. Although interesting to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle duke Posted December 29, 2021 Report Share Posted December 29, 2021 19 hours ago, Michael Darnton said: I would be interested to hear what people here think are the takeaways from the video. So my takeaway is that it is o.k. to just stop shaping the gluing surface of the bass bar when we think it will be good enough along with being tired of the micro fitting that supposedly needs to be done. Sounds alright to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Alex T. Posted December 29, 2021 Report Share Posted December 29, 2021 Thank you for the links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Goldsmith Posted December 29, 2021 Report Share Posted December 29, 2021 Some idiot commented 'top makers'....yes these are TOP MAKERS...talking on Zoom..not the natural environment of the maker....I guess some of them might have wished to say more, edit or say less....But here it is...one of the best things to have landed on Maestronet since .........The normal question of how to glue two bits of wood together...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipKT Posted December 29, 2021 Report Share Posted December 29, 2021 I’m enjoying this, but I’m curious about a “leg spreader“ it sounds as if the bald guy, whom I think is Robin, is saying that he spread the legs before he fits the feet? I thought that the legs were fixed in position and it seems that it is possible to push them apart before final fitting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted December 29, 2021 Report Share Posted December 29, 2021 11 minutes ago, PhilipKT said: I’m enjoying this, but I’m curious about a “leg spreader“ it sounds as if the bald guy, whom I think is Robin, is saying that he spread the legs before he fits the feet? I thought that the legs were fixed in position and it seems that it is possible to push them apart before final fitting? Plenty of scope for naughty jokes about getting legs apart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted December 29, 2021 Report Share Posted December 29, 2021 2 hours ago, Melvin Goldsmith said: Some idiot commented 'top makers'....yes these are TOP MAKERS...talking on Zoom..not the natural environment of the maker....I guess some of them might have wished to say more, edit or say less.... Yup. One of the hazards of zoom culture, but nice to see/hear the back and forth from these makers none-the-less. One possible take-away might be that having a system (checklist or whatever) is better than poking around in the dark (if one didn't know that already they might start with the consensus presented within the video). I honestly didn't get all the way through it (it's kind of long), but one thing I was hoping to hear (and maybe it was said but I didn't wait around long enough) was something like what a good friend and esteemed colleague once mentioned to a participant when guest-teaching during the Oberlin restoration workshop: (Pertaining to working on an old and successful violin) "It's probably best not to think you're the first genius to work inside that instrument". In other words, applied to this case (setup), carefully look for signs that indicate reasonable previous position(s) of bridge(s) and sound post(s) and see what results are obtained when those position(s) are employed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arglebargle Posted December 30, 2021 Report Share Posted December 30, 2021 On 12/28/2021 at 1:48 PM, Michael Darnton said: I would be interested to hear what people here think are the takeaways from the video. Not sure if you are being deliberately disagreeable, but on the same note, I would be interested to hear the takeaways from the many many many hours of you "teaching" violin making online or in person. Are you the only qualified pedagogue allowed to post opinions about techniques and theories online? Is this group of violin makers beneath you? If you are not being deliberately disagreeable, I would also be interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted December 30, 2021 Report Share Posted December 30, 2021 On 12/28/2021 at 5:26 PM, scordatura said: Davide. I wondered the same thing. Fan Tao and the powers that be must have voted to make it public. I have considered going to the live workshop in the summer but haven't been able to fit it in. The acoustics workshop (Fan and friends) have traditionally been organized enough and successful in limiting the scope of video releases to get some info out to the public in a coherent manner. Over that last couple summers, other workshops have also resorted to zoom to maintain some sort of connection to participating members, but (and I'm speaking for the restoration workshop) having an open zoom meeting with 15 to 30 participants does not make for a good video release. It would probably give you a migraine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipKT Posted December 30, 2021 Report Share Posted December 30, 2021 1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said: Plenty of scope for naughty jokes about getting legs apart Of course, but you will notice that I was grown-up enough not to mention any of the possibilities. So one of us is still 12, it seems… Oh you naughty English… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perret Posted December 30, 2021 Report Share Posted December 30, 2021 45 minutes ago, arglebargle said: Not sure if you are being deliberately disagreeable, but on the same note, I would be interested to hear the takeaways from the many many many hours of you "teaching" violin making online or in person. Are you the only qualified pedagogue allowed to post opinions about techniques and theories online? Is this group of violin makers beneath you? If you are not being deliberately disagreeable, I would also be interested. I don't think that Michael Darnton was asking anything disagreeable. I listened to the live presentation but don't have time to listen again, so I too would be interested in what others gathered from the presentation. I'm sure that I didn't catch everything that was discussed and would look forward to hearing something that I might have missed, or what others found especially interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Dorsey Posted December 30, 2021 Report Share Posted December 30, 2021 2 hours ago, PhilipKT said: …it sounds as if the bald guy…is saying that he spread the legs before he fits the feet? I thought that the legs were fixed in position and it seems that it is possible to push them apart before final fitting? I can’t comment on the video since I haven’t watched it. But I was taught to spread cello bridge legs with a prop before fitting the feet, so I have always assumed that this is common practice. Cello bridge legs have enough flexibility to do this. The reason for doing it is to anticipate the spreading that is caused by string tension. Of course it is impossible to spread violin or viola bridge feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipKT Posted December 30, 2021 Report Share Posted December 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Brad Dorsey said: I can’t comment on the video since I haven’t watched it, but I was taught to spread cello bridge legs with a prop before fitting the feet. Of course it is impossible to spread violin or viola bridge feet. That’s what I understood him to be saying, but I don’t understand why. After all the legs are made of wood, and they are pre-cut, so if you tried to stretch them without first getting them wet so they’re flexible, wouldn’t they just break? And why spread the legs anyway? You’re going to fit the feet to the arching’s anyway, so is it a simple matter to explain why the lateral distance needs to be adjusted? If it’s one of those things the Layman can’t easily understand, no need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipKT Posted December 30, 2021 Report Share Posted December 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, PhilipKT said: 49 minutes ago, arglebargle said: Not sure if you are being deliberately disagreeable, but on the same note, I would be interested to hear the takeaways from the many many many hours of you "teaching" violin making online or in person. Are you the only qualified pedagogue allowed to post opinions about techniques and theories online? Is this group of violin makers beneath you? If you are not being deliberately disagreeable, I would also be interested. I’m not sure I understand how anybody could think that question was disagreeable? I personally enjoyed the video very much and I think I learned something from it even though I am nothing but a player. But I can’t possibly imagine any angle that reveals the question as being anyway disagreeable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Dorsey Posted December 30, 2021 Report Share Posted December 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, PhilipKT said: …if you tried to stretch them without first getting them wet so they’re flexible, wouldn’t they just break? No. They are flexible enough dry to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipKT Posted December 30, 2021 Report Share Posted December 30, 2021 On 12/28/2021 at 12:48 PM, Michael Darnton said: I would be interested to hear what people here think are the takeaways from the video. I was delighted at the talk about loudness. I told my kids that volume is a decibel level. If you want volume, rent a jackhammer. But volume is not what the audience is hearing. They are hearing character and complexity in a sound. Even though all these guys were talking off the cuff and had no time to prepare comments, they all said exactly the same thing I tell my kids, and explained it in a valuable way. Sam pointed out that when people use the word “loud“ they are being negative and if they are responding positively they will use the word “powerful“ I agree completely, but unfortunately a lot of people refer to my cello as loud… Sad face emoji… On the other hand, everybody wants it, so there’s that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipKT Posted December 30, 2021 Report Share Posted December 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Brad Dorsey said: No. They are flexible enough dry to do this. Ok thanks. Very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Darnton Posted December 30, 2021 Report Share Posted December 30, 2021 FWIW, in the vein of what Jeffrey said, Philip Perret is one of my setup heroes. Takeaways: -interesting that AR doesn't modify his bridges. Want to know more about how this works and wondering if he overstated for effect? -interesting that all three judge setups based on their own playing. This I disagree with! -want more from RA about tightness! Baited, not sated! -wish Sam Z had expanded specifics about his G string problem and solution so we could have something to apply. -thus it follows, was disappointed that there weren't more specifics on some very embryonic comments. -reacted with disappointment to the revelation that they don't do experiments that won't immediately pay (referring to bridges at end). Basically, it was SO close. If only they had explained more! Definitely not dissing their abilities as violin makers. Also was disappointed that this topic was about to fall into page 2 oblivion without any discussion which is why I posted something just to boost it back to the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted December 30, 2021 Report Share Posted December 30, 2021 3 hours ago, PhilipKT said: I thought that the legs were fixed in position and it seems that it is possible to push them apart before final fitting? If one does not spread the legs a bit before fitting the feet (how much is necessary depends on the 'cello arch and the bridge to a certain extent, but it's not unusual to go 2mm to 3mm... and in some cases a tad bit more... on a 90mm or 92mm bridge), once string tension is introduced the legs will spread from the downward force of the strings across the curve of the arch (at the feet) and the feet essentially go (outer) "toes up". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Kasprzyk Posted December 30, 2021 Report Share Posted December 30, 2021 Earlier Oberlin Acoustic Workshops presentations can be found at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCb8nC_6JQtlqal0-bVQZMeg/videos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipKT Posted December 30, 2021 Report Share Posted December 30, 2021 58 minutes ago, Jeffrey Holmes said: If one does not spread the legs a bit before fitting the feet (how much is necessary depends on the 'cello arch and the bridge to a certain extent, but it's not unusual to go 2mm to 3mm... and in some cases a tad bit more... on a 90mm or 92mm bridge), once string tension is introduced the legs will spread from the downward force of the strings across the curve of the arch (at the feet ) and the feet essentially go (outer) "toes up". OK I understand that: kind of like “pre-washed jeans” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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