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Labled Cuypers, but assured Mittenwald


captkingdom
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2 hours ago, LouisXVI said:

I guess now the thing is about how old his daughter is, anyways If I was him I would be seriously tempted to cancel the deal.

It was only $1,500, and his daughter likes it. It has attractive wood, and a pleasant-enough varnish. He said that "a very beautiful sound." I don't know about the bridge and set-up, and the peg ends look ugly (but may be salvagable), but if the set-up is ok, I'd say keep it and let his daughter enjoy it.

The best violin is the one that you want to play.

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I am not convinced. Maybe it was the result of 12-year old Werner Gluckenheim's first viola and he got his measurements mixed up. Regardless, my skepticism really doesn’t matter whatsoever! :lol:

And yes...of course the best violin is the one you want to play...er...except when it's a viola. :ph34r:

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1 hour ago, GeorgeH said:

It was only $1,500, and his daughter likes it. It has attractive wood, and a pleasant-enough varnish. He said that "a very beautiful sound." I don't know about the bridge and set-up, and the peg ends look ugly (but may be salvagable), but if the set-up is ok, I'd say keep it and let his daughter enjoy it.

The best violin is the one that you want to play.

Yep, I can see what you mean. I just said it thinking the best for the girl's learning process and how playing an "ambiguous" instrument could affect it.

9 minutes ago, Rue said:

I am not convinced. Maybe it was the result of 12-year old Werner Gluckenheim's first viola and he got his measurements mixed up. Regardless, my skepticism really doesn’t matter whatsoever! :lol:

And yes...of course the best violin is the one you want to play...er...except when it's a viola. :ph34r:

It reminds me to one of those Disney movies about "you can be whatever you wanna be". The title would be something like "the viola which came out as a violin". That would be perfect for the new kind of education that is being instructed to kids nowadays lol.

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To put it into perspective, it's not that rare to find Mnk/Schb instruments being made with somehow unusual features, dimensions or shapes compared to the big rest. At least they were not produced by big machines but in small shops/cottages being always flexible enough to make something accordingly to particular demands of a customer, and so this might be one of these.

The fractional sized violas are in my knowledge more a late 20th century thing, so it's very unprobable that it was meant to be such. But if it works as a small viola, too, I would see no reason why it shouldn't be used this way.

OTOH such unusual example are within the normal trade valued lower than more conservative instruments, not higher, simply because the demand is higher for traditional shapes and less for unusual; but if the common opinion here is that 1,5 K$ is a good price for it, it might be. If it were mine I had called it simply "big 3/4" and offered it for a slighly lower price than full size - maybe the next time I'm gonna act different after learning here.;)

Another point is that the Mnk/Schb trade very often sold parts or complteted instruments just in the white to be finished or varnished by somebody else elsewhere. Occasionally discussed examples are the "Salsedo" violins from Scotland (which are of a much better quality), but one can find smilar examples everywhere, as I wrote finished by dealers or by amateurs or autodidacts, sometimes signed, sometimes anonymous.

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12 hours ago, Rue said:

Okay. 

It has thick ribs, a thick waist and doesn’t really look like a violin.

Why is it NOT a viola?

Perhaps I missed it, but did OP post rib measurements? The pic does make the APPEAR high but the phone lens do that all the time and mislead especially on close shots.

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I dunno,

To me the thing is more like this:

If someone who is an expert, or knows much more than me convinced me that a 60 dollars irregular chinese violin(yes, good sounding violin) worths 3000 dollars that would be right? I don't know, It doesn't feel right to me.

PSD: Of course I'm not saying this is a 60 dollars violin, it's just an example.

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4 hours ago, Blank face said:

Another point is that the Mnk/Schb trade very often sold parts or complteted instruments just in the white to be finished or varnished by somebody else elsewhere. Occasionally discussed examples are the "Salsedo" violins from Scotland (which are of a much better quality), but one can find smilar examples everywhere, as I wrote finished by dealers or by amateurs or autodidacts, sometimes signed, sometimes anonymous.

So "Salsedo" violins were not made in Italy even though the dealer said they were? And were they even "Scottish"?

 

Salsedo.jpg

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45 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

The OP’s daughter likes it, the OP seemed happy with the price they paid in comparison to other instruments they tried.
I’m not really seeing any issues here.

In my experience, it is harder to find decent-sounding 3/4 violins than 4/4 violins, so if the OP's daughter found a "large 3/4" or "7/8" (whatever one wants to call it) that fits her well and sounds good, then good for her. It may well be that the unique dimensions of this violin contributes serendipitously to its "very beautiful sound." 

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3 minutes ago, LouisXVI said:

But, how do we know if it is a Viola for sure?

Since nobody seems willing to give a definite answer...I suppose we'll never know!  But historical evidence suggests it's likely just a wonky violin after all.

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FYI, the ribs are exactly the same as our other full size violin.

I really don't understand all the viola discussion, because literally all the dimensions are the same as a full size violin except the body length which is only half an inch shorter.

Next step in the identification saga, I reached out to Ekkard Seidl, in Markneukirchen, who said he did not think it was Markneukirchen.

 

Edited by captkingdom
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I wasn't concerned with the look (just curious about the look).  I was thinking of the sound.  If it sounds 'off' when compared to other violins, it would be an issue.  Doesn't mean it doesn't sound good (could be the best sounding 'solo' instrument in the world)...just that it might not blend.  I can play my viola like a violin...but it doesn't quite sound like a violin.  If a group was interviewing me to play with them...and I insisted on playing my unique instrument that doesn't blend in with the rest of the group...I wouldn't pass the interview now, would I?

And...for the sake of argument (yeah...I'm admittedly grumpy today) it's not easy (and sometimes even impossible) to "find different musician friends".  So there's that.  Be an island!

And yes!  We do discuss sound quality all the time.  If your violin is too shrill to blend in with a group...they wouldn't want it in the group either...

Actually...I find this entire conversation 'odd'.  In general, MN dismisses 'unique' instruments.  In this case, seems like MN is defending a 'unique' instrument! :P

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