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My first violin


Crimson0087
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Just do like I said and they will come apart, I promise. Early on I used titebond for corners., and have taken them apart, no problem.

Also the working time for titebond is not longer than hide glue, it starts getting thick fast and will leave a thick ugly glue line.

I use it to glue the blocks to the mold because it is faster than hide glue. You just need some experience.

Use a thin pallet knife and start working it into the joint, it will come apart as easy as hide glue, any formula. Even the waterproof titebond (it's not)  will completely break down with a bit of heat, but it doesn't melt as nicely and predictably as the others.

One neat thing about titebond, one or two is that two pieces can be coated with it and then melted together.

I once had a Les Paul that someone had stripped and stained,,, the painted ones have sugar maple scrap wood tops all glued up with no flame, so it really looked nasty.  I stripped it,and using the titebond "heat to glue" method I glued on a flamed maple veneer top, it really looked fantastic. It followed all the curves and glued down nicely. You just coat both pieces and let it thoroughly dry, then use an iron to melt them together. I finished it with violin varnish and it ended up at a music store for a very pretty coin. They knew what I had done,  it looked nice.

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48 minutes ago, Crimson0087 said:

Thanks for all the advice. I will attempt to unglue them tonight. Else I'll remake them. I actually have a set of ribs just would have to thickness them a little more.

Might be a good idea to slip them back in the mold, or lightly glue them to something to stabilize them since your new at this.

You could also clamp the block you are working on, on the edge of a table with the outside hanging over while you work on it.

You should keep them damp for a while beforehand,, like I explained.

Follow directions and,,It will be easier than you imagine:)

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If you used Titebond hide glue it should be reversable but if you used Titebond wood glue I don't think it is reversable.   you could cut the ribs back to the corners but I think you will have a gap between the ends of the ribs.   I would say cut the ribs back to the corners accept the gap,  cut the plate corners back to match and call it good for a first build that is if you used wood glue rather than hide glue.   

Don't feel bad about it.  The first one is a leaning experience.  you should see mine from 1985  :D  I was brave enough to show a couple pics of it on my thread.  Page 14 if anyone wants to have a good laugh at a first build.   

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5 hours ago, Dave Slight said:

Titebond, if the original recipe, is affected by both heat and moisture. Guitar repairers have to do it quite regularly.

Even if the OP can’t get the ribs apart, there is no point in continuing to use this garland, for the reasons already stated above, and the points made by Andrew Victor.
It would make more sense to make new ribs, and try to save the plates, if possible.

 

5 hours ago, Muswell said:

Yes, it's not a problem. Stewmac even sell an iron for heating fingerboards to remove them if you don't dare borrow the family iron.

 

3 hours ago, Evan Smith said:

Just do like I said and they will come apart, I promise. Early on I used titebond for corners., and have taken them apart, no problem.

Also the working time for titebond is not longer than hide glue, it starts getting thick fast and will leave a thick ugly glue line.

I use it to glue the blocks to the mold because it is faster than hide glue. You just need some experience.

Use a thin pallet knife and start working it into the joint, it will come apart as easy as hide glue, any formula. Even the waterproof titebond (it's not)  will completely break down with a bit of heat, but it doesn't melt as nicely and predictably as the others.

One neat thing about titebond, one or two is that two pieces can be coated with it and then melted together.

I once had a Les Paul that someone had stripped and stained,,, the painted ones have sugar maple scrap wood tops all glued up with no flame, so it really looked nasty.  I stripped it,and using the titebond "heat to glue" method I glued on a flamed maple veneer top, it really looked fantastic. It followed all the curves and glued down nicely. You just coat both pieces and let it thoroughly dry, then use an iron to melt them together. I finished it with violin varnish and it ended up at a music store for a very pretty coin. They knew what I had done,  it looked nice.

 

2 hours ago, Davide Sora said:

Yes, my statement comes from past experiences with ungluing guitar fingerboards, it never crossed my mind to glue violin ribs with Titebond:D

 

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->Cook it.

To disassembly, whatever glue you used, put it in hot water in a big vessel or whatever you have. Then put it at the oven at ~100 Celsius or bit more. 

In 25 or a bit more minutes you it will be completely dissasemlied and you will have all the pieces without any flaws. Ribs will be deformed but you will fix them again. Let the pieces dry and fix any issue. 

Humidity and high temperature dissolve both titebond original and hide. 

 

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11 hours ago, Goran74 said:

Yes. The guy has to do the process again. It is not time consuming job to put blocks on form and then ribs.. 

Just take care the corners. 

Use divider and not template. 

I also like divining corner shapes by geometry, but it's not easy for the uninitiated, especially if they haven't done a geometric analysis of the form.

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So I was unable to unglue the tight bond 3. Wish I had seen the post about baking it in water before I broke it apart lol. I just started over. But I'm okay with that because it gave me more practice on corner blocks and my corner blocks actually carved much easier this time. They aren't perfect but I'm not going for perfect this time ( and by perfect I mean beginner perfect lol which is still far from it) but I didn't want to spend 3 days on corners. Anyways thanks again. 

 

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1 hour ago, Crimson0087 said:

So I was unable to unglue the tight bond 3. Wish I had seen the post about baking it in water before I broke it apart lol. I just started over. But I'm okay with that because it gave me more practice on corner blocks and my corner blocks actually carved much easier this time. They aren't perfect but I'm not going for perfect this time ( and by perfect I mean beginner perfect lol which is still far from it) but I didn't want to spend 3 days on corners. Anyways thanks again. 

 

To check the length of the corner blocks during working, I use a drawing like this one, which I superimpose the blocks on when I cut them until I have a match. Very helpful. The measures in red are indicative for corners that I consider long (but in any case much much shorter than yours) and which I therefore consider as the maximum size not to be exceeded. Obviously they only have value for my form which has a lower maximum width of 201 mm, a maximum upper width of 168 mm and a minimum width between Cs of 103 mm (Stradivari G Form). If your form were narrower or wider the measurements of the block widths would also have to change proportionally.

Here you can see my system if you wish and if you have the time (21 videos:o) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF3cmIIipyQ&list=PLaxadm6POX7EDdiroIqVTbztJmKuSbHYU

923747957_7-DSC_5874modtctass4ritridscritta.thumb.jpg.0e7a5088756955bfe558d11089f2cf3d.jpg

 

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12 hours ago, Crimson0087 said:

This is very helpful as I used the form G as well!

Pay particular attention not to exceed the total distance between the outside tips of the lower blocks and upper blocks, because it is the one that controls the effective protrusion of the corners with respect to the rest of the outline. It is also quite useful to check the distance between the upper and lower tips of the C (opening of the C) to avoid making C too closed that would as a result too hooked inside curves.

 

639704426_8-DSC_5874distanzapunte.thumb.jpg.1b5407563ca8e2887fb39b8fb74f1a12.jpg

Also this measure is only indicative, because it can easily vary if you shorten or lengthen the tips, while maintaining the same curves.
The main purpose of taking all these measures is that they will allow you to make effective changes on the next violin in case the results does not satisfy you. These are things that an expert luthier can afford to do easily by eye without measuring, but if you don't have a well-trained eye taking a few measures helps a lot.;)

 

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1 hour ago, Davide Sora said:

The main purpose of taking all these measures is that they will allow you to make effective changes on the next violin in case the results does not satisfy you.

This is really a great idea! I've been having trouble getting good corners myself, and I can see how this would be tremendously helpful.

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2 hours ago, Mike Atkins said:

This is really a great idea! I've been having trouble getting good corners myself, and I can see how this would be tremendously helpful.

Yep, even if someone is allergic to measures, or to avoid criticisms of being too accurate and meticulous in doing so (often happens among luthiers;)) the simple overlapping of the form with the blocks being worked on a reference drawing provides an immediate clue of where we are and how much we still have to remove or modify, quick and efficient.

However, the final check must always be done by eye, it is absolutely necessary to learn to use your eyes because it is the most accurate and efficient tool you have....once trained...:)

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