Hopf violin id

[Mat Roop]

I recently read a description of an  identifiable feature of Hopf violins ..." its slightly "angular" upper bout" 

What is meant by "angular"?  ... is that the slight reduction of rib height from the upper blocks to the neck? 

If so, is that peculiar to Hopf, primarily?

Cheers, Mat

[mathieu valde]

So called Hopf violin model - angular=square like. Unforgettable    

[Blank face]

If you'll study them you might find that they aren't all squarish or angular or whatever. This applies usually to the later mass produced cottage industry violins to which dealers applied their Hopf brands.

[jacobsaunders]

The masses of the Dutzendarbeit fiddles with “Hopf” stamp, made by many artisans not necessarily named Hopf, supplied through wholesalers like G.A.Pfretschner et al had a squarish outline, which is probably what is meant. Funnily enough, if you go to the Museum in Markneukirchen and look at instruments made by a real person called Hopf, they aren’t really like that at all, so you should probably change your reading habits

[Brad Dorsey]

22 minutes ago, Mat Roop said:

I recently read a description of an  identifiable feature of Hopf violins ..." its slightly "angular" upper bout" 

What is meant by "angular"?…

I’ve most-often heard Hopfs described as “square-shouldered,” meaning that, in outline, the upper part of the upper bout has less curve than most violins and is perpendicular to the instrument centerline, and then at the “shoulders” the outline turns rather abruptly and becomes parallel to the centerline before turning in toward the C bouts.

[Mat Roop]

4 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

.....so you should probably change your reading habits

Ha... yes but Maestronet has Jacob to set us straight!

I get the squarish shoulders look ... just could not relate that to the word "angular"

 

Thanks Y'all!

[GeorgeH]

18 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

The masses of the Dutzendarbeit fiddles with “Hopf” stamp, made by many artisans not necessarily named Hopf, supplied through wholesalers like G.A.Pfretschner et al had a squarish outline, which is probably what is meant.

Isn't that squarish outline and model the primary distinguishing features of the Dutzendarbeit fiddles from Klingenthal compared to similarly made violins from Markneukirchen?

[jacobsaunders]

15 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:

Isn't that squarish outline and model the primary distinguishing features of the Dutzendarbeit fiddles from Klingenthal compared to similarly made violins from Markneukirchen?

no

[reg]

I've been puzzling a bit too with this very square profile - so the current discussion is helpful. 

[GeorgeH]

14 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

no

Care to elaborate? Are there any distinguishing features of the Dutzendarbeit fiddles from Klingenthal compared to cottage industry violins from Markneukirchen? Thank you.

[Strad O Various Jr.]

I've had circa 1800 actual Hopfs with perfectly rounded outline

[jacobsaunders]

27 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:

Care to elaborate? Are there any distinguishing features of the Dutzendarbeit fiddles from Klingenthal compared to cottage industry violins from Markneukirchen? Thank you.

If you are suggesting that the Dutzendarbeit with squarish shoulders are from Klingenthal, and the ones from Markneukirchen have roundish outlines and Bob’s your uncle, as an attribution approach, I would find that pretty lobotomised

[GeorgeH]

4 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

If you are suggesting that the Dutzendarbeit with squarish shoulders are from Klingenthal, and the ones from Markneukirchen have roundish outlines and Bob’s your uncle, as an attribution approach, I would find that pretty lobotomised

I am asking a question, and not assuming nor suggesting an answer. 

Are there any distinguishing features of the mass-produced fiddles from Klingenthal compared to cottage industry violins from Markneukirchen? If yes, could you elaborate on what those features are?

And I do not have an Uncle Bob. 

[jacobsaunders]

25 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:

I am asking a question, and not assuming nor suggesting an answer. 

Are there any distinguishing features of the mass-produced fiddles from Klingenthal compared to cottage industry violins from Markneukirchen? If yes, could you elaborate on what those features are?

And I do not have an Uncle Bob. 

The Vogtländische Dutzendarbeit of the last quarter of the 19^th C used a more or less identical system of work throughout the area, and are thus impossible to divide up into each of the 27 or so towns/villages

[reg]

So why, Jacob, are some so very square and others rounded down but all from the same region?

Was it at the whim of the maker or just a prevailing fashion?

[jacobsaunders]

30 minutes ago, reg said:

So why, Jacob, are some so very square and others rounded down but all from the same region?

Was it at the whim of the maker or just a prevailing fashion?

They come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, it would be naive to suppose each of the 30 odd towns/villages had their own exclusive shape. 

[GeorgeH]

1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

The Vogtländische Dutzendarbeit of the last quarter of the 19^th C used a more or less identical system of work throughout the area, and are thus impossible to divide up into each of the 27 or so towns/villages

43 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

They come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, it would be naive to suppose each of the 30 odd towns/villages had their own exclusive shape. 

Did the buyers make the decisions as to what models and/or shapes were to be made and how many? 

In the states, the vast majority of cottage industry violins with "Hopf" stamped under the button have this square shoulder shape. 

[deans]

I think most of us define "Hopfs" based on the stamp. I suspect that these stamps have little to do with the intention of the makers, but were just randomly put on instruments by a middle man. Maybe they preferred to put the Hopf stamp on squarer fiddles and a "Glass" stamp on others. But thats really all they are - stamps.

[jacobsaunders]

Here is the "Hopf"! stamp, belonging to the wholesaler G.A. Pfretschner with which they dobbed tens of thousands of "Dutzendarbeit". Goodness knows where all of the wretched people lived who made the fiddles, or what their surname was

[deans]

Imagine how much that stamp would sell for on EBAY