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German bow I/d?


El Duce
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18 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

I like it. I have seen that oversized eye with the thin ring before but can’t place it. Also, the slide look shorter than usual. Is that a thing? Is the nipple worn? The button looks off center.

Think the slide is ok - narrower than usual metal edging to the pearl slide. The nipple looks okay but for some reason it looks as if the stick has been planed thinner on the the bottom facet so there is less wood from the nipple compared to the top. 

IMG_20211101_185853.jpg

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15 minutes ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

Usually bows with such coarse thread on the thumbscrew are older, newer bows tend to have really tight thread

Thanks very much I'm used to seeing the newer ones you mention with a sharper edge and thinner body. Thanks Strad O Various Jr. 

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17 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

Regarding the thread, my bow guy told me that the German thread making machines produced threads that were wider and rounder, but I don’t remember him saying anything about the date, or whether wide round thread was only used from this year to that year.

All great to know. Many thanks!

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We know officially from a survey from 1872 (your bow is later, but same difference) that there were 70 bow making shops in Markneukirchen and a further 100 in surrounding villages, with 42 registered journeymen as well as 76 part suppliers, and that almost no bows were stamped. Any stamps were generally from dealers. Should one consider all of that, it is evident that wanting to work out from whom some random bow is, is the very definition of a pointless waste of time. If you get a nice warm feeling calling it a “Bausch”, fair enough, but you should realise that you are deluding yourself.

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To me it looks in all aspects like made more close to the mid 19th century than to 1900. The model of frog and head are all over Bausch (senior), but these were usually made by Knopf family members, and surely copied by others, too. The wide adjuster being thicker than the stick is quite usual for this period. For Knopf the chamfers are a bit too narrow in my eyes. But a nice bow and surely not mass produced/usual trade.

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13 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

We know officially from a survey from 1872 (your bow is later, but same difference) that there were 70 bow making shops in Markneukirchen and a further 100 in surrounding villages, with 42 registered journeymen as well as 76 part suppliers, and that almost no bows were stamped. Any stamps were generally from dealers. Should one consider all of that, it is evident that wanting to work out from whom some random bow is, is the very definition of a pointless waste of time. If you get a nice warm feeling calling it a “Bausch”, fair enough, but you should realise that you are deluding yourself.

The guilds made sure that every shop met certain standards of excellence, correct? So nobody could just say they made bows, but had to prove it first, right? Did the guilds keep track of which shops were the most popular and prolific and best regarded?

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36 minutes ago, Blank face said:

To me it looks in all aspects like made more close to the mid 19th century than to 1900. The model of frog and head are all over Bausch (senior), but these were usually made by Knopf family members, and surely copied by others, too. The wide adjuster being thicker than the stick is quite usual for this period. For Knopf the chamfers are a bit too narrow in my eyes. But a nice bow and surely not mass produced/usual trade.

Thank you for your help Blank face much appreciated. Interesting re the adjuster I will bear that in mind in future. Great info and help as ever!

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37 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

We know officially from a survey from 1872 (your bow is later, but same difference) that there were 70 bow making shops in Markneukirchen and a further 100 in surrounding villages, with 42 registered journeymen as well as 76 part suppliers, and that almost no bows were stamped. Any stamps were generally from dealers. Should one consider all of that, it is evident that wanting to work out from whom some random bow is, is the very definition of a pointless waste of time. If you get a nice warm feeling calling it a “Bausch”, fair enough, but you should realise that you are deluding yourself.

Thank you Jacob I wasn't aware of that about the bows and stamps - good to know. Much appreciated.

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2 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

The guilds made sure that every shop met certain standards of excellence, correct? So nobody could just say they made bows, but had to prove it first, right? Did the guilds keep track of which shops were the most popular and prolific and best regarded?

This was the case roughly till the end of the 18th century, but afterwards the guilds were more interested in organizing the business and trade.

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3 hours ago, El Duce said:

The nipple looks okay but for some reason it looks as if the stick has been planed thinner on the the bottom facet so there is less wood from the nipple compared to the top. 

Could you show the other side of stick and frog to see if there is anything altered? The metal underslide looks very assymetrical, so it's possible that the frog and stick were altered to fit and possibly both weren't going together from the beginning.

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11 hours ago, martin swan said:

I am pretty dubious about whether the mounts go with the stick.

I also think that the mounts are a Bausch "hommage" rather than the real thing - but I like the frog a bit more than the button :D

It won't be that unusual if frog/adjuster and stick were made by different specialist shops. You could look into Deutsche Bogenmacher and will find that several of the pictured Bausch (shop) bows have buttons much wider than the sticks, and that a long thin nose of the head was also common, the rather long ferrule, too. I agree with the opinions above that such an adjuster thread points to a relative early period, i.e. pre ca.1870.

What makes me wonder is the significant difference between the diagonal facettes of the upper metal slide of the frog, but I found this feature also sometimes at fast produced bows from the period. That's all very difficult to judge by photos.

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The collar on the adjuster should surely be round where it meets the stick for 1870 - Ludwig Bausch Jr etc? It appears to have a sharp edge ...

Also the ebony ring is quite wide.

We've had a couple of later Bausch bows and this just doesn't seem to have the quality - too many sharp edges where they should be round and round where they should be sharp!

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22 minutes ago, martin swan said:

The collar on the adjuster should surely be round where it meets the stick for 1870 - Ludwig Bausch Jr etc? It appears to have a sharp edge ...

Also the ebony ring is quite wide.

We've had a couple of later Bausch bows and this just doesn't seem to have the quality - too many sharp edges where they should be round and round where they should be sharp!

I was talking more about period and style. It's not a Bausch shop bow, or made for them by a recognizable maker, on that we can agree. I mentioned the chamfers of the head before. 

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