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germain
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Do not use this sort of glue on violins, it’s not what you want, unless you want to make a mess, then pay someone extra to sort it all out properly.

Hide glues should be set at room temperature. The glue in the bottle has additives to stop it gelling, which make it weak and subject to creep. Basically it never dries properly, and is badly affected by high humidity.

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We've had several threads on this goo, all of them disapproving.  A lot of us on MN, including me, have tried the stuff at some time or other, and whatever it's good for (which I haven't discovered yet), violin assembly or repair isn't it.  Ignore the manufacturer's claims, it isn't like real hide glue at all.  One major difference is that it has a limited (and unknown) shelf life, after which it never hardens.  :)

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If you read the fine print on the bottle, you will see it is not recommended for any joint which is stressed. The bending and shear loads that most joints on the violin have to resist will cause this glue to undergo a process called "creep" and it will eventually fail.

Joints made with this glue will break cleanly when worked with a knife just like real hide glue. It also cleans up well with a damp rag before it hardens. Use for gluing unstressed wood joints on items that will sit quietly on a shelf.

 

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I have not had the misfortune to work on a violin repaired with Titebond. Actually prefer Titebond for resetting guitar necks (tapered dovetails), where the strength of the joint is in the joint itself. If it ever has to be redone, the glue will plasticise at a lower temperature and make removal easier. When I fit a dovetail neck joint, I can string and tune the guitar with no glue in the joint. The it of any joint needs to be accurate regardless of what kind of glue is used. But for violin work, hot hide glue always. You can adjust the strength as needed for different joints.

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I used this glue for my 1st Violin (finished Oct 2001) and It's still in use. So far, the only failure has been the Nut, which came loose this month (20 years later!) and was re-attached using the same glue. 

The top and bottom plates were rough pre-carved blanks purchased from International Luthier's Supply (sadly defunct), so I can't say how the holding quality would have fared along the plate joints, but the rest of the instrument was assembled using Titebond Hide Glue.

Will it last another 20 years? or 100??   Who knows???

 

 

Edited by Rico Suave
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11 hours ago, ctanzio said:

.....Use for gluing unstressed wood joints on items that will sit quietly on a shelf.

 

I used it to glue  a fingerboard on a family violin 30 years ago, ... it sat in a case in my basement shop for a month ... I looked at it before delivering and thank goodness I did, because the fingerboard, with no stress, had completely fallen off and the glue was all sticky. Clean up was easy though!:P

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well, not only does this glue suck because it is questionable how well in works over the long run as compared to "regular" hide glue, but in it's class {cold bottles of glue meant for gluing wood primarily} it is one of the most toxic ones available with the FRAT test (Formaldehyde Release Attenuation Test) charting rather high. So with these things one can say either it's one more toxic thing you expose yourself to or one less, I really don't see any need to play with formaldehyde when heat and water will get you there.

Slogans like "for every second you save we'll take it off your lifespan" seem to come to mind 

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Not to defend this particular glue...but...:ph34r:

- not meant for making violins

- think it's primarily intended for antique furniture repair - where I think it's often a better choice than using a white glue. Historically accurate...and can be unglued if required.

Reminds me of the negative product  reviews I see on-line:

"I gave this product a 1 ☆ rating because it came late and I ordered the wrong size." :wacko::D

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22 hours ago, Rue said:

Not to defend this particular glue...but...:ph34r:

- not meant for making violins

- think it's primarily intended for antique furniture repair - where I think it's often a better choice than using a white glue. Historically accurate...and can be unglued if required.

Reminds me of the negative product  reviews I see on-line:

"I gave this product a 1 ☆ rating because it came late and I ordered the wrong size." :wacko::D

Ya, but it's still full of poison and I like to think that one who is working on "antique furniture" would have a glue pot and know how to use it , and that it would be a warning sign to me if someone wanted to use it, it would be more like "some guy who wants to get into antique repair" The same way it may fail on an instrument, it may fail with furniture, with a violin, someone will have a bad day and get upset, with a chair, catastrophic structural failure could occur and someone could get seriously injured 

The only real use I see for this is parquet block inlay where I would be on a site that is cold and would not want to have to babysit a glue pot for 8 hours, it's good for weak temp joints for tracing, but even then some tapes are more convenient, particularly for vertical stuff 

I just see no reason to expose myself to poison when there is a better more natural product. I think it is products like this, metholated alc, stoddard solvents and all the other little "well I'm just touching it for a second, or I'm just breathing that for a second" but doing it several times a day over the course of 50+ years , suddenly we have liver,kidney and cancer problems , let alone sensitization issues that effect the quality of life.

I think it is the responsibility of older craftsmen to steer potentially younger people who may be getting into "woodwork" in some form away from products like this and to get them to think about cumulative occupational exposure and the dangers they present and to always go the extra mile to use safer better products if they are available. 

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The glue question is silly. Hide glue heats up easily so you just need to plan ahead. It costs a fraction of what other glues do, it bonds faster and stronger than anything but super glue and unlike superglue it can survive shock. Almost all other glues go bad in a year or less. Flakes of hide glue have a crazy long shelf life. You can pass the stuff to your children if it is well stored.

Once you are set up and once you have used normal, plain dissolve and heat up hide glue, you almost stop wanting anything else. There are times when you will wonder how it went from almost the only glue used to a glue only used by serious craftsmen.

There are places for other glues, but for a wooden instrument, it is in almost every single way, better than other alternatives. It cleans up, it mostly resists moisture, it is safe to use, it is repairable, it cost a fraction of what other glues do, it is as strong as almost all the materials you are gluing, the list goes on. Almost all other glues make repair very difficult if not impossible without removing material.

If you don't mind that your instruments will be trash after the first attempt at repair, use something else.

If it has to be waterproof, epoxy is pretty good. Know that you just made it disposable but go ahead and use something else. If you need safe and water resistant, shellac is a pretty good glue and you might be able to repair it.

You can chemically adjust hide glue to slow or be waterproof, but a humidifier will do wonders for slowing hide glue without ruining the qualities. Waterproof hide glue can ruin your equipment and it defeats a lot of the reasons for using hide glue in the first place.

With a garlic clove rubbed on metal, hide glue will bond to a lot of surfaces quite well, so with planning hide glue is an all around winner.

Other glues are great at making sure the surface will never bond again. If you want a glue proof surface, dilute some tightbond with water and paint the surface. It isn't the prettiest finish, but if you then apply a bit of Johnson's wax, not much is ever going to stick to the surface you have made.

Here is the thing. I have had tightbond and other glues fail and ruin the surfaces of what i was gluing so that I had to throw out some really nice wood. That never, ever happens with hide glue. If I mess up, I can clean up and start over.

In summation, don't go looking for a fix when the original is not just good but near perfect. Normal, plain, old fashioned hide glue takes a bit of learning, but then is just works.

 

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I had seven violins at once,, come completely unglued 30 years ago using this junk. It was recommended by another luthier, (ex nuclear chemical engineer). Be careful who you listen to, no matter how smart they might appear.

I went down south with my load,,, the glue liquefied,,, and Boom! they came all apart,, what a mess!

I had to completely clean every joint and reassemble.

Also I have destroyed fingerboards trying to get them back off after using this,, in different conditions this stuff is completely unpredictable.

It contains formaldehyde, it is toxic.

Use it for crinkle paint while  wearing a hazmat suit.

Any more questions?

 

 

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