Alexander James Stew Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 On 10/16/2021 at 12:52 AM, Shelbow said: Many thanks. Dear Shelbow, done...took a few more close ups. All the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtone Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 41 minutes ago, Alexander James Stew said: Dear Gtone, I took some better close-ups of the violin including the back. I hope they help to clarify your question. Hey thanks for obliging us Alexander, you have a great night as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander James Stew Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 Here are some more photos of my 1916 Luigi Azzola. Freshly taken just now. I hope it clarifies any questions asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurella Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 Thanks Alexander. The label and written ink certainly looks legit and it looks like an inside mould may have been used for the build? Someone commented earlier in the thread about the dark bits around the edges - in these photos it just looks like bits of old residue that needs cleaning. I don't know what it is about the tops of corners but dirt always seems to accumulate more there than anywhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander James Stew Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Aurella said: Thanks Alexander. The label and written ink certainly looks legit and it looks like an inside mould may have been used for the build? Someone commented earlier in the thread about the dark bits around the edges - in these photos it just looks like bits of old residue that needs cleaning. I don't know what it is about the tops of corners but dirt always seems to accumulate more there than anywhere else. Dear Aurella, I was pleased to get a good pucture of the label with natural daylight. One can tell the "16" is written clearly in ink. The local violin maker here did an "ultraviolet" test on the label with a blue light...and told me the label was probably from the time of construction of the violin. As regards an inside mould ...I honestly don't know. And yes dirt tends to accumulate in the corners. I would also like to know if anyone has seen a pre 1920 Luigi Azzola... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hempel Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 UV merely tests for the presence of optical brighteners, when it's use started c.1950. Plenty of paper have no opitical brighteners. So a UV test can not be a dispositive test for age. I would hope that you pursue due diligence with a bit more rigour than what's been revealed thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander James Stew Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 18 minutes ago, Hempel said: UV merely tests for the presence of optical brighteners, when it's use started c.1950. Plenty of paper have no opitical brighteners. So a UV test can not be a dispositive test for age. I would hope that you pursue due diligence with a bit more rigour than what's been revealed thus far. Dear Hempel, Many thanks for the information. I think that is exactly what the violin maker said. He was pretty sure when he conducted the UV test that the paper was pre 1950. But yes I can't prove the paper is from 1916. The way the ink has faded on the number "16" ....Is there anyway that one can check the age of the ink? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin swan Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 25 minutes ago, Hempel said: I would hope that you pursue due diligence with a bit more rigour than what's been revealed thus far. Steady on .... I have been sceptical about this violin (and still am TBH), but as far as I know Alexander is a happy owner not a prospective seller and he is under no legal or moral requirement to do "due diligence". Anyone who proudly posts images of their Benito Frascati violin here on Maestronet must accept some level of professional dubiety with good grace as he has done, but he's not obliged to know any more about his violin than he already does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander James Stew Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, martin swan said: Steady on .... I have been sceptical about this violin (and still am TBH), but as far as I know Alexander is a happy owner not a prospective seller and he is under no legal or moral requirement to do "due diligence". Anyone who proudly posts images of their Benito Frascati violin here on Maestronet must accept some level of professional dubiety with good grace as he has done, but he's not obliged to know any more about his violin than he already does. Many thanks Martin. Yes I am a very happy owner of this violin especially for its tonal qualities and colour but I would love to know if anybody comes across a pre 1920 Luigi Azzola... Interesting to compare.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 Heres the back of a supposed 1917 viola. Also i assume your violin was bought as"labelled Azzola and not by Azzola"? No offence intended here just doubt anyone would have said by Azzola in the 1990`s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander James Stew Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 (edited) 38 minutes ago, fiddlecollector said: Heres the back of a supposed 1917 viola. Many thanks fiddlecollector! Any chance of seeing the front? Edited October 17, 2021 by Alexander James Stew forgot to add something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander James Stew Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 Dear Fiddlecollector....do you have a photo of the front? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hempel Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 hour ago, martin swan said: Steady on .... I have been sceptical about this violin (and still am TBH), but as far as I know Alexander is a happy owner not a prospective seller and he is under no legal or moral requirement to do "due diligence". Anyone who proudly posts images of their Benito Frascati violin here on Maestronet must accept some level of professional dubiety with good grace as he has done, but he's not obliged to know any more about his violin than he already does. Martin, There's a world of difference between: On 10/15/2021 at 12:53 PM, Alexander James Stew said: And by the way I had a test done on the label... The paper is over 100 years old. 2 hours ago, Alexander James Stew said: I was pleased to get a good pucture of the label with natural daylight. One can tell the "16" is written clearly in ink. The local violin maker here did an "ultraviolet" test on the label with a blue light...and told me the label was probably from the time of construction of the violin. More than a few participants on this thread voiced their skepticism on how (i.e. which tests) the label was determined to be "over 100 years old." But then I wouldn't expect you to understand this distinction. And only a fool would expect a fiddle to be forever in the possession of a single person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelbow Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 I found this image is on an Asian database apparently of a 1913 Azzola bit it had no reference to who owns it or where it was purchased from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 21 minutes ago, Alexander James Stew said: Dear Fiddlecollector....do you have a photo of the front? Sorry no or if i have, i cant seem to find other photos at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin swan Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, Hempel said: But then I wouldn't expect you to understand this distinction. I haven't made any comment on the issue of the label, so it's beyond me how you know what I do and don't understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strad O Various Jr. Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 Alex has a long history on this forum of stretching the truth about his bows and violins, that's why I'm more than a little bit skeptical of this one, even though I'm certainly not any kind of expert on 20th century Italian violins, when he says he has had it appraised by so and so, I have no idea what that means, pictures, in person, fantasy, who knows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank face Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 To clarify it a bit: I was really surprised when the OP came up with the last two sets of photos and spent some time comparing to find out if it really shows the same instrument and label. Obviously many of the points making me very sure in the first place that both label and violin were cheap fakes were based on some over-processing of badly taken photos, the appearance of the label, varnish etc. So this I had to set right. OTOH this doesn't mean that I can tell or have any clear opinion now wether both label and instrument are what is claimed. The violin looks like a slightly irregular but nicely made instrument in a good state and the label isn't crying clearly fake as I thought it would before. There's still the possibility that it is something else, or even a more refined fake, but that's now beyond my experience and knowledge. Therefore, as it was said several times now, the last word belongs to the few qualified experts in the field of modern Italians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander James Stew Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 35 minutes ago, Strad O Various Jr. said: Alex has a long history on this forum of stretching the truth about his bows and violins, that's why I'm more than a little bit skeptical of this one, even though I'm certainly not any kind of expert on 20th century Italian violins, when he says he has had it appraised by so and so, I have no idea what that means, pictures, in person, fantasy, who knows " A long history"... That's pretty OTT..... I joined in June and what is " stretching the truth" supposed to mean? It's so easy to pass judgement on others. All I have done here is share photos of my violin which I am very proud to have and state it has had a verbal appraisal from a knowledgeable expert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank face Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Shelbow said: I found this image is on an Asian database apparently of a 1913 Azzola bit it had no reference to who owns it or where it was purchased from. I saw this, too, but the database is listing everything without any evidence or provenance so it is very unreliable and should be ignored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander James Stew Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, Blank face said: To clarify it a bit: I was really surprised when the OP came up with the last two sets of photos and spent some time comparing to find out if it really shows the same instrument and label. Obviously many of the points making me very sure in the first place that both label and violin were cheap fakes were based on some over-processing of badly taken photos, the appearance of the label, varnish etc. So this I had to set right. OTOH this doesn't mean that I can tell or have any clear opinion now wether both label and instrument are what is claimed. The violin looks like a slightly irregular but nicely made instrument in a good state and the label isn't crying clearly fake as I thought it would before. There's still the possibility that it is something else, or even a more refined fake, but that's now beyond my experience and knowledge. Therefore, as it was said several times now, the last word belongs to the few qualified experts in the field of modern Italians. Dear Blank face, I guarantee that this is the same violin. These are photos I took over the last 2 days. I am not here to try deceive everyone. This all started because I was asked to share photos of my LUIGI AZZOLA from 1916 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank face Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 And maybe I should add that I saw a lot of 1930-50 czech violins made also very beautiful in a similar style (Vavra, Galla, Forberger etc.), so I wouldn't know how to distinguish them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank face Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 minute ago, Alexander James Stew said: Dear Blank face, I guarantee that this is the same violin. These are photos I took over the last 2 days. I am not here to try deceive everyone. This all started because I was asked to share photos of my LUIGI AZZOLA from 1916 That's allright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank face Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 oops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank face Posted October 17, 2021 Report Share Posted October 17, 2021 2 hours ago, martin swan said: Anyone who proudly posts images of their Benito Frascati violin here I would prefer a Carlo Chianti, but that's a matter of taste I'm supposing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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