Luigi Azzola violin 1916

[Shelbow]

1 minute ago, Alexander James Stew said:

Dear Shelbow,

I will see what I can do...Am going to turn in for tonight. It's 00:50 here in Portugal just outside Lisbon.

Many thanks.

[Alexander James Stew]

Just now, Shelbow said:

Many thanks.

Most welcome

 

55 minutes ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

Alexander James Stew; Much better photos. If you're feeling charitable, please take a well lit and sharply focused photo of the center ridge on the back of the pegbox for BassClef.

 

[Violadamore]

2 hours ago, Shelbow said:

Right everyone time to get this back on track, let's stick to comments on the violin itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ANufwUPFm8    

[mysticpaw]

1 hour ago, Violadamore said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ANufwUPFm8    

[Blank face]

Thanks for the new photos.

To say it short, they are interesting, but in general I can't see much difference to the first except in color temperature, lighting and the addition of some more three-dimensional effects. They are unfortunately even more unfocussed than before, so I can make out rather less details.

The most important question is still the same: Would it ever have been attributed to Azzola without the existence of the most highly questionable label?

 

[Aurella]

37 minutes ago, Blank face said:

The most important question is still the same: Would it ever have been attributed to Azzola without the existence of the most highly questionable label?

 

Well as it stands, probably not, but as has been pointed out there isn't really a reference for what his earlier models may have looked like. I suppose one would have to examine a few Azzola instruments in detail to form a definitive opinion.

In the newer pictures the varnish appears of better quality, and it looks like the f holes are slightly fluted (unless it's a shadow) which is a nice touch.

Alexander, would it be possible to take a close up of the corners? Just out of curiosity, as it's a bit hard to see in the other pictures Thanks for sharing your photos.

[Blank face]

1 hour ago, Aurella said:

Well as it stands, probably not, but as has been pointed out there isn't really a reference for what his earlier models may have looked like.

Using this logic one can ascribe everything to anybody, simply based on every bogus labelling.

[Aurella]

I completely agree, I really meant there's no way to know given the evidence presented.

[martin swan]

Does anyone have a copy of "Liuteria Italiana"? It would be interesting to see what Eric has to say about Azzola's early biography ...

The Chi-Mei catalogue suggests that he was an amateur who frequented the Fagnola workshop : 

"Luigi Azzola, 1883-1973

Luigi was born in Venice, and he moved to Turin along with his family in 1896. He began his amateur life as a luthier after his frequently appearance in the workshop of Annibale Fagnola. The style of Azzola had been based on Fagnola’s."

I know it's going to be a bit of a red rag to a bull, but I see Alex Gartsman has an Azzola from 1924. It's very different from the OP's violin, and all I can say is that even if Alex has a heavy accent and once owned the lease on a pawn shop, I have never known him to play fast and loose with attributions.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/254797723019

This violin is also quite similar to an instrument from 1929 sold by Skinners, though there's not much to go on in this photo : https://www.prices4antiques.com/Strings-Violin-Luigi-Azzola-1-Piece-Back-Fine-Grain-Top-1924-Case-A054006.html

But we can see a similar dark red-brown

varnish, similarly wide c-bouts and a similar swoop or droop to the f-holes.

Of course the OP's violin is earlier than either of these, but I think it's reasonable to be a bit puzzled.

[Jeffrey Holmes]

1 hour ago, martin swan said:

Does anyone have a copy of "Liuteria Italiana"? It would be interesting to see what Eric has to say about Azzola's early biography ...

Eric's entry for Azzola is pretty short... less than half a page... but I has more information than the Chi-Mei entry quoted above.  Eric includes only one photo; a top; of a '20s fiddle... Guad model I believe.  I'm away from the shop till Monday, but will check my copy when I get in and check the details (and my memory).

[uncle duke]

What is needed is both examples of his works - before and during/after Fagnola.  If Azzola had to change his working method of doing things I see it sort of difficult to say yes or no to the earlier example.  I'm sort of assuming Azzola changed some methods of work after running into Fagnola, so.....

Looking over my own work over the years though I'll mention some things don't change much even though I changed a lot of things.  Things like lower hole shaping, button shaping, I guess the centerline going down the back of the scroll and possibly the depth of gouge work while working the scroll.  If Fagnola recommended tool changes for Azzola things can get tougher to decipher. 

I guess what I'm saying is that if we here had the o.p violin along with another side by side we could make the comparisons here using our eyes and opinions. 

 

[jacobsaunders]

1 hour ago, uncle duke said:

What is needed is both examples of his works - before and during/after Fagnola.

 

What would be needed would be one with a kosher label, to compare that

[uncle duke]

Aster the Fiorini label debacle some years ago I'll say I'm not the one to have any decisions about label attribution.  Some days a guy just can't win.

[Alexander James Stew]

Dear all,

I have tried to take some photos of my early Luigi Azzola with a higher quality. I think they start to show the instrument in its true light. Many thanks to all for your input on this.

[Alexander James Stew]

Some more close-ups and the label.

[Blank face]

To tell the truth, it's starting to become confusing. Actually I would admit that the violin looks quite nice, much better than what's to be expected from an autodidactical work, and it could be the talent of Alexander Steward to produce misleading photos making a good instrument look like some wrecked imitation. The scroll has a certain similarity to the Gartsman example, too, so maybe that was what Eric Blot was seeing.

To say anything here about the label it would be necessary to clean it (with a soft brush or an air pump) because the dust is covering every detail. One reservation I would make is that it's somehow too similar to the 1947 label pictured by Jalovec (the only comparison I have yet) and most makers won't use exactly the same over a period of more than 30 years.

[Alexander James Stew]

Luigi Azzola had 2 labels. This is the earlier of the 2. René Vannes book has pictures of both.

[uncle duke]

Hang around awhile Alex.  You will not be led astray.  Sometimes this stuff takes time to figure out. 

[Alexander James Stew]

Dear Blank face ....a minor point but it's Alexander Stewart not Steward. Although Stewart does derive from Steward. Apparently my family background  states we were responsible for the king's  family... As I mentioned before this violin was sold in Christie's Auction in 1995 or 1996 for £3000. I purchased the violin in 1996 for £6000. £3000 in 1996 for a Luigi Azzola seems about right. And it was sold as a violin MADE BY Luigi Azzola. I bought the violin on its tonal qualities...which I love.

[Hempel]

23 hours ago, Alexander James Stew said:

And by the way I had a test done on the label... The paper is over 100 years old.

As Clint Eastwood "Dirty Harry" character stated, "In the middle of all this excitement" I might have missed how the the age of the paper was determined to be "over 100 years old."

If A Stewart provided such an explanation I'd appreciate if someone would point it out.  

[Blank face]

1 hour ago, Alexander James Stew said:

Dear Blank face ....a minor point but it's Alexander Stewart not Steward. Although Stewart does derive from Steward. Apparently my family background  states we were responsible for the king's  family... 

My apologies for the misspelling. What's visible now is just Stew, and I missed to look up the complete name. Anyway, in Germany we are usually spelling "Stuart" due to Friedrich Schiller. Sounds like a tragical but romantic family history with poor Mary and the Bonnie Prince.

When the four pages were good for something than to learn how important good photos can be for a violin presentation. One thing I don't understand why you weren't keen to become sure and get something written, and if it was for an adequate insurance only.

[Alexander James Stew]

21 minutes ago, Blank face said:

My apologies for the misspelling. What's visible now is just Stew, and I missed to look up the complete name. Anyway, in Germany we are usually spelling "Stuart" due to Friedrich Schiller. Sounds like a tragical but romantic family history with poor Mary and the Bonnie Prince.

When the four pages were good for something than to learn how important good photos can be for a violin presentation. One thing I don't understand why you weren't keen to become sure and get something written, and if it was for an adequate insurance only.

Dear Blank face,

Many thanks for your words. Actually Stuart and Stewart all derive from the same family.

I was planning to go to Cremona back in the beginning of 2020...then this dreaded virus struck....I think I will go and see Eric Blot in the near future. It would be nice to have a certificate from him. You know I have never seen a pre 1920 Azzola....but this is great playing instrument and projects well in solo playing

[Alexander James Stew]

On 10/16/2021 at 12:47 AM, Gtone said:

Yeah Bass Clef take it easy man

Skepticism is one of a"true experts"sharpest tools

A lion will never eat a true prince.

Martin never said what your saying,so I would leave it.

BTW Alexander I would like to see a clear pic of the back join

if you're are kind enough

 

Dear Gtone,

I took some better close-ups of the violin including the back. I hope they help to clarify your question.

[Alexander James Stew]

On 10/16/2021 at 8:26 AM, Aurella said:

Well as it stands, probably not, but as has been pointed out there isn't really a reference for what his earlier models may have looked like. I suppose one would have to examine a few Azzola instruments in detail to form a definitive opinion.

In the newer pictures the varnish appears of better quality, and it looks like the f holes are slightly fluted (unless it's a shadow) which is a nice touch.

Alexander, would it be possible to take a close up of the corners? Just out of curiosity, as it's a bit hard to see in the other pictures Thanks for sharing your photos.

Dear Aurella,

On your request I posted a couple of clearer photos of the corners. Have a great sunday.

[Alexander James Stew]

On 10/16/2021 at 12:05 AM, BassClef said:

To be clear, since you keep bringing me up, haha, I never asked for these photos or anything of the sort. Jeffrey Holmes is asking for them, so while we may all learn something about tool marks as a result, it is his request. But if you do generously honor Jeffrey’s request, please post those on the tool marks thread which keeps getting derailed by discussions about who was Strad’s teacher.

Dear BassClef,

I took a closer picture of the back of the pegbox...and the front. I think they are clearer. All the best and have a great Sunday.