GeorgeH Posted October 8, 2021 Report Share Posted October 8, 2021 It is a lovely violin in good condition, well-setup, the OP is very happy with the sound, and he selected it after trying many violins at different price points from different shops within about a 250 mile radius. In short, he did his research and made a good choice for what he was looking for. I have purchased several fine violins from Bromberg's shop over the years, and I have found his prices to be both reasonable and in-line with other dealers, both locally and nationally. I have no hesitation whatsoever in recommending his shop to colleagues and friends. As @Violadamoresuggests, price discussions on MN tend to go nowhere fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob K Posted October 8, 2021 Report Share Posted October 8, 2021 An early C20th JTL Medio Fino (in good condition) that I had on a commission sale in London sold relatively quickly for £750 (roughly $1000) a couple of years ago. In the 1919 JTL catalogue an antiqued (imitation vieux) Strad/Blondelet labelled model like the OPs cost 25 times the price of a Medio Fino. On that basis, relative to my Medio Fino, you might expect a price of £18,750 or roughly $25000. You can draw your own conclusions.................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted October 8, 2021 Report Share Posted October 8, 2021 I suppose it beats the Jusek that Philip just paid Tarisio $6,000 for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strad O Various Jr. Posted October 8, 2021 Report Share Posted October 8, 2021 2 hours ago, Bob K said: An early C20th JTL Medio Fino (in good condition) that I had on a commission sale in London sold relatively quickly for £750 (roughly $1000) a couple of years ago. In the 1919 JTL catalogue an antiqued (imitation vieux) Strad/Blondelet labelled model like the OPs cost 25 times the price of a Medio Fino. On that basis, relative to my Medio Fino, you might expect a price of £18,750 or roughly $25000. You can draw your own conclusions.................. Modern antique value is not based on what things sold for when new Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violadamore Posted October 8, 2021 Report Share Posted October 8, 2021 54 minutes ago, Strad O Various Jr. said: Modern antique value is not based on what things sold for when new Actually, it often is. Relative quality ranking tends to persist. Why does anyone care what model something was originally listed as if they have to look it up, rather than perceive it directly from the object? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strad O Various Jr. Posted October 8, 2021 Report Share Posted October 8, 2021 Pricing is based on what it is now, not how it was marketed over a hundred years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germain Posted October 9, 2021 Report Share Posted October 9, 2021 "... JTL a music store selling everything from factory made violins to B flat saxophones..." hahaha not my quote but one of the greatest French restorers in NYC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Violin Beautiful Posted October 9, 2021 Report Share Posted October 9, 2021 Here’s an upper level JTL that has a brand: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtone Posted October 9, 2021 Report Share Posted October 9, 2021 Nice. Roughly the same time frame as OP? Also the lettering, is that grading like Martin Swan suggested? I have wondered about those, but never heard what they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeH Posted October 9, 2021 Report Share Posted October 9, 2021 6 hours ago, The Violin Beautiful said: Here’s an upper level JTL that has a brand: Nice - thanks for posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin swan Posted October 9, 2021 Report Share Posted October 9, 2021 15 hours ago, germain said: "... JTL a music store selling everything from factory made violins to B flat saxophones..." hahaha not my quote but one of the greatest French restorers in NYC Not much money to be made restoring JTLs I suppose ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germain Posted October 9, 2021 Report Share Posted October 9, 2021 3 hours ago, martin swan said: Not much money to be made restoring JTLs I suppose ... Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violadamore Posted October 9, 2021 Report Share Posted October 9, 2021 6 hours ago, martin swan said: Not much money to be made restoring JTLs I suppose ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin swan Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 7 hours ago, Violadamore said: Not at all … this renowned French restorer is pouring undeserved scorn on a great French institution. His snobbery also overlooks the fact that many of the violins with proper names which likely meet with his approval are of the same quality and from the same source! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violadamore Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 3 hours ago, martin swan said: Not at all … this renowned French restorer is pouring undeserved scorn on a great French institution. His snobbery also overlooks the fact that many of the violins with proper names which likely meet with his approval are of the same quality and from the same source! Ahhhh...........OK. One weakness of communicating by text is the loss of many nuances. I'd interpreted your comment as irony based on your evident success in selling Mirecourt products, rather than your intended slap at the sincerity of the "French restorer". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhiyi_zhang617 Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 On 10/8/2021 at 2:36 PM, jacobsaunders said: I suppose it beats the Jusek that Philip just paid Tarisio $6,000 for Hmmm.... Retail vs. auction, good condition vs. repair required. Notwithstanding, Philip's Juzek beat all EH Roths in that T2 auction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wood Butcher Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 6 hours ago, martin swan said: Not at all … this renowned French restorer is pouring undeserved scorn on a great French institution. His snobbery also overlooks the fact that many of the violins with proper names which likely meet with his approval are of the same quality and from the same source! And did he not start out in Mirecourt, making exactly that type of instrument? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germain Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 8 hours ago, Wood Butcher said: And did he not start out in Mirecourt, making exactly that type of instrument? Same origins for sure but perhaps he was a bit more sophisticated doing a real arching rather than a hot plate? Haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB_Smith Posted October 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2021 On 10/10/2021 at 3:33 AM, martin swan said: His snobbery also overlooks the fact that many of the violins with proper names which likely meet with his approval are of the same quality and from the same source! Great point, Martin! I think some of the snobbery does not stop with this NYC French restorer. Here's my take on it: According to the 1919 JTL catalog, regarding the Lutherie D'Art series violins: - "All parts were made by our Master Luthiers having obtained either a gold or silver medal at universal or international exhibitions." - "The wood used for the manufacture of the violins of this series had a minimum of twenty-five years of aging and natural drying. The instruments were only put on sale after two years of varnishing." Presumably, JTL would either select the best pieces of wood at the start of the 25+ year aging process, or they would periodically cull the better pieces of wood from the stock throughout the aging process so that by the time it had dried for 25+ years, it was the best wood in JTL's stock to be used to make their highest quality violins. So, every part of my violin was made by JTL's best, most experienced luthiers and from "good bones." I doubt I could find a much better violin for what I paid for this one. But more important to me, a novice violin student, the value of my 1920 JTL is not in the price I paid for it, and I certainly did not buy it for it's "investment value" hoping to score a large return down the road if I ever sell it. Rather, it is all about having a better instrument to help me progress in what is proving to be a longer and more difficult journey than I had originally thought to reach a decent level of playing proficiency. Of course I want to believe I was not cheated on the price I paid for this instrument. And reviewing the discussion on these pages and the information in the 1919 JTL catalogue, I think I got a great violin at a very reasonable price. It brings me great pleasure, despite my frustration of learning to play it well, and that's its true value! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strad O Various Jr. Posted October 11, 2021 Report Share Posted October 11, 2021 I wouldn't believe their marketing hype, its still a factory violin made by factory workers, albeit a better grade of factory violin than their cheaper models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin swan Posted October 11, 2021 Report Share Posted October 11, 2021 11 minutes ago, Strad O Various Jr. said: I wouldn't believe their marketing hype, its still a factory violin made by factory workers, albeit a better grade of factory violin than their cheaper models. It’s good to be sceptical of catalogue claims but I would think that the top level of JTL violin was made in a very similar way to a Vuillaume (for example). There’s nothing intrinsically beneficial in having the same person make every last bit of a violin … Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle duke Posted October 11, 2021 Report Share Posted October 11, 2021 On 10/7/2021 at 11:44 AM, KB_Smith said: On 10/7/2021 at 12:06 PM, Blank face said: Thanks. From What’s possible to see they look like straight forward French outside mould rib joints, the second coming a bit apart at the bottom. I was going to mention that I can make inside mold corners look that but I can't quite figure out what that little white spot is a the bottom of the miter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassClef Posted October 11, 2021 Report Share Posted October 11, 2021 56 minutes ago, uncle duke said: I was going to mention that I can make inside mold corners look that but I can't quite figure out what that little white spot is a the bottom of the miter. Likely glare from a light source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germain Posted October 12, 2021 Report Share Posted October 12, 2021 10 hours ago, KB_Smith said: Great point, Martin! I think some of the snobbery does not stop with this NYC French restorer. Here's my take on it: According to the 1919 JTL catalog, regarding the Lutherie D'Art series violins: - "All parts were made by our Master Luthiers having obtained either a gold or silver medal at universal or international exhibitions." - "The wood used for the manufacture of the violins of this series had a minimum of twenty-five years of aging and natural drying. The instruments were only put on sale after two years of varnishing." Presumably, JTL would either select the best pieces of wood at the start of the 25+ year aging process, or they would periodically cull the better pieces of wood from the stock throughout the aging process so that by the time it had dried for 25+ years, it was the best wood in JTL's stock to be used to make their highest quality violins. So, every part of my violin was made by JTL's best, most experienced luthiers and from "good bones." I doubt I could find a much better violin for what I paid for this one. But more important to me, a novice violin student, the value of my 1920 JTL is not in the price I paid for it, and I certainly did not buy it for it's "investment value" hoping to score a large return down the road if I ever sell it. Rather, it is all about having a better instrument to help me progress in what is proving to be a longer and more difficult journey than I had originally thought to reach a decent level of playing proficiency. Of course I want to believe I was not cheated on the price I paid for this instrument. And reviewing the discussion on these pages and the information in the 1919 JTL catalogue, I think I got a great violin at a very reasonable price. It brings me great pleasure, despite my frustration of learning to play it well, and that's its true value! That’s a bit over the top. Let’s be realistic here. They are trade quality instruments. They make decent player instruments made by the thousands hence the low price, most of them sound really nice but far from a piece of art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB_Smith Posted October 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2021 Don’t believe I ever called it a piece of art. I said it’s the best JTL built, which it is, and as nice an instrument as I could get at that price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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