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Tool marks on violins/cellos/violas - style, tradition, or mistakes?


BassClef
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2 hours ago, BassClef said:

For all you players out there, whip out your own instrument(s) tomorrow and see if you can find any interesting tool marks to post, I am fascinated by this discussion and now all of the photos, I’m really learning a lot about tool marks, thanks everyone.

Why not today?

I think the back of th scroll is the easiest place to find tool marks, here is the back of my H. Derazey scroll showing some:

20200819_133230.jpg

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6 hours ago, Violinjon said:

Why not today?

I think the back of th scroll is the easiest place to find tool marks, here is the back of my H. Derazey scroll showing some:

20200819_133230.jpg

It looks as if the lines in the middle are only existing for maybe one inch and exactly parallel on both sides. What caused these marks? Is it the varnish cracking or results of scraping in that one area only, or a third option (likely)? Possibly the photo is only highlighting that area where the lines continue above and below the obvious marks?

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1 hour ago, Shelbow said:

I love it already. Can you send me pics of the whole instrument? I'll send you mine ha ha :wub:

 

1 hour ago, BassClef said:

Has someone made the effort to save this scroll? Was it grafted onto a new neck at some point? What are we looking at? Salkamergut?

Probably Salzkammergut (you're a hidden expert already;)), possibly saxony. The bottom also featured some nice gouge marks along the edges. One of those which makes you wonder what the makers would have been able to do with more time and better wood at hand. I think it was posted in some threadss before, but here once more: (some may like to advertise such violins as "Testore", like we've learned)

IMG_3889.JPG

IMG_3890.JPG

IMG_3894.JPG

IMG_3893.JPG

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15 hours ago, MikeC said:

Actually the corners are unfinished.  I left them a little wide and will trim them down to final shape.  But they were close enough to put in the purfling.    If you think the purfling miter is not neat you should see the ones on the back plate! :) They are even worse but it's just my first build so hopefully next one will be better. 

The extended knife cut was kind of on purpose.  My thought was when it fills with colored varnish it would make the bee sting look more pointy but maybe that's not such a good idea?  

For a first violin this looks very good. I did not mean to be overly critical and I am sure this corner will look fine under varnish.

Unless sanded or scraped over and over almost all instruments will have tool marks and construction artifacts. Most will have small mistakes as well. The line between them is very thin but none the less discernible to the experienced and educated eye.

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8 hours ago, MANFIO said:

Francesco Stradivari corner, notice the two knife strokes left from preparing the groove for the purfling. Photo by Bruce Carlson. These are tool marks too.

 

242638284_10208851127831526_344586842029

 

Left side would be the C bout.   I was told that in Strad's the C bout purfling extends to make the 'bee sting'.  In this one you can see the purfling cutter mark is coming from the outer bout which tends to contratict that and seems to make more intuitive sense. But this is Francesco not Antonio so maybe he did it differently?   The purfling stops short and there is a little bit of black filler to turn the point inward towards the C bout which I've seen on other Strads.  The shorter of the two knife marks may have been a move in the wrong direction since the purfling seems to point in the same direction of the longer knife mark.  One thing to consider is the purfling cutters in the museum if they really are Strad's and not Ceruti's  they are a bit wide and have a rounded tip so could easily cut slightly beyond the desired stopping point of the purfling but I wouldn't think quite that far.   Also the fact that is is still there at all indicates the purfling channel may have been cut and inlayed after the fluting not before fluting otherwise it would have been removed by cutting the fluting assuming it's not too deep.   Well that's my little bit of interpretation of what's going on there.   I could be wrong.  

There seems to be a line of more intense varnish running around the C bout outside the purfling.  Could that be a varnish filled groove and also a slight hint of the same thing along the outer bout. Similar to what I see in the ex Bisiach" link.   Or is that just my imagination? 

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26 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

What is "playing in tune"? Is it "just" intonation, piano intonation, mathematical intonation, note pitch which does or doesn't vary according to the key signature, or what?

You can start a new topic in the fingerboard forum if you’re so curious, people may help you there.

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7 hours ago, John Harte said:

 

Strad 1703_purfling detail.jpg

Right side of photo would be the C bout.  It only seems to extend about the width of the black part of the purfling.  So as a construction sequence I would imagine the C bout purfling is inserted first and then the outer bout purfling pushed into the corner to meet it.  In the photo posted earlier by Manfio the two seem to meet at the same point with a little bit of black filler extending left into the C bout.   Of course two different makers F. vs. A.  right?  Do you think that knife cut extending from the point of the purfling is on purpose or they just didn't care about that? 

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31 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

I am more interested in what you meant by, "Playing out of tune is always a mistake".

Last time I address this on this thread since it’s too far off topic in my judgment, you and Stross can play semantics all you want on the fingerboard with this topic.

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