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denatured alcohol substitute in california


Jeff Krieger
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1 hour ago, Jeff Krieger said:

OK, after all of this craziness I found out 95% isopropyl alcohol from the corner pharmacy works just fine.

I would suggest making a small batch, purity from water at 95% is what your hoping for, but just cause it says so doesn't mean it really is, so I'd test it out and make sure it doesn't make "milk" and that it is not prone to excess blushing at in good conditions when drying 

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2 hours ago, Jeff Krieger said:

OK, after all of this craziness I found out 95% isopropyl alcohol from the corner pharmacy works just fine.

I tried isopropyl achohol once and found it burns quite sooty, wouldn't recommend it for rehairs.

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8 hours ago, jezzupe said:

Poor guy, didn't you get the memo , we're all leaving, well, because crap like this, you can't just buy everclear either, or at least not the 190 stuff

Sadly, there are many states where you can't buy everclear 190, including Nevada, so it's not just CA.  I think everclear is preferable to denatured alcohol, as it doesn't have benzene added to form an azetrope to aid distillation.  Or at least, that's the rumor.  The benzene could be removed, but I have never been able to find if that's usually done. 

I wish there was a luthier or woodworking license one could obtain that would allow us to buy Everclear; it's not like we plan to drink it. :P 

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Some denatured alcohol includes some proportion of methyl alcohol; the fumes can be poisonous.  Common denatured alcohol in the US may include as little as 50% Ethanol, and can include up to 10% methyl alcohol.   Stick to everclear. 

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Here in EU I used to buy denatured alcohol at pharmacy. Denatured ethanol with some additive (I read "gasoline" in MSDS which can be many things), no methanol as it is used for disinfection. It's scientific latin name is "Spiritus cum benzino denaturatus" and comes in 96% ethanol. Ten years ago I started having problems getting it without prescription from doc. They also sell "spiritus dilutus" whih is probably the same diluted to 60%. I tried to by HW store denatured and if you read the MSDS of each brand (here it is compulsory to list ingredients on the sticker) you'll find the ingredients and percentage vary wildly (though no methanol here).

I got some pure undenatured pharmacy grade ethanol as well but it is expensive as heck but finally settled upon "bioethanol" sold as fuel for ventless fireplaces. It is largely supported as ecological fuel in EU a I can get it in 99.9% ethanol with trace of bitrex (denatonium benzoate) for 2-3 EUro per liter - best stuff ever for shellac. Does not smell bad or contain other toxic substances like methanol, just tastes bitter (VERY bitter)

Similar stuff is sold in US and some companies will ship it... I think I read the ventless fireplaces are banned in CA so you'll have to search a bit but it is supposed to burn well witout soot or other bad things.

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14 hours ago, David Burgess said:

What are the ingredients of this "denatured alcohol" and in what proportions? Is it mostly ethanol, with additives to make it  undrinkable or poisonous, or what?

 

The can says: "Crown Denatured Alcohol. Cleans Glass. Contains Methanal and Ethanal". I guess there would be more methanal than ethanal since that's listed first. I don't recall what it cost, but much cheaper than Everclear. Works okay to make shellac. Should I avoid it in your opinion?

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13 minutes ago, bkwood said:

The can says: "Crown Denatured Alcohol. Cleans Glass. Contains Methanal and Ethanal". I guess there would be more methanal than ethanal since that's listed first. I don't recall what it cost, but much cheaper than Everclear. Works okay to make shellac. Should I avoid it in your opinion?

I like to avoid body contact with methanol, also breathing the fumes. A number of hand sanitizers were recalled when they were found to contain some methanol

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18 hours ago, violins88 said:

In North Carolina, teenagers, apparently sometimes drank 190 proof Everclear and died. Now it is illegal in North Carolina. So, when I lived there, I just drove over the border to South Carolina to buy it. 

Wouldn't it be better to teach the kids what is safe and what's not safe to drink? Seems to me that a little education would be a better solution to the problem, rather than the government simply making it unavailable. 

What if the same uninformed kids crossed a state line and bought a bottle of Everclear there?

Alcohol over 50% straight up damages the esophagus and stomach tissues, not to mention acute Alcohol poisoning in large enough quantities.

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17 hours ago, David Burgess said:

I don't appreciate our government requiring additives to make ethanol more toxic than it already is. But I do appreciate that most of the stuff which is sold through liquor stores is required to be pretty highly tested for stuff like that.

They don't monitor liquor production that closely. Cheap liquors are generally poorly distilled and contain very small quantities of methyl alcohol, fusel oils and other impurities that contribute to a bad hangover. This is due to the distilleries trying to glen as much product from a distillation run, rather than trying to produce a quality product.

There isn't enough there to be immediately dangerous, but long term it'll take it's toll on the body.

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22 hours ago, bkwood said:

I live in California and buy Denatured Alcohol by the quart at my local hardware store.

It’s probably mostly methanol. Check the ingredient.

The main additive usually is 10% methanol (methyl alcohol), hence the name methylated spirits. Other common additives include isopropyl alcohol, acetone, methyl ethyl ketone, and methyl isobutyl ketone. In the United States, mixtures sold as denatured alcohol often have less than 50% ethanol.”

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23 hours ago, fiddlecollector said:

I use bioethanol in bow alcohol lamps  and for dissolving shellac etc... its cheap and never had a problem with it. being in the uk the ingredients will vary a little than in the US but e-NRG are based in LA and their`s is 92% ethanol 8 % isopropanol.

https://e-nrg.com/

 

12 hours ago, Carl Johnson said:

Anyone tried this?

https://www.amazon.com/Medical-Grade-Ethanol-Production-Fermentation/dp/B08JHF6QLH/

95% ethanol, 5% DI water, a little bit of bitrex, $13/quart.

It looks like either of these would be OK.

I presume the Bitrex ("the world's most icky tasting substance") would remain in the varnish film, so I wonder if that would be a problem for those of our customers who are varnish-lickers? :o

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On 9/16/2021 at 9:47 PM, violins88 said:

In North Carolina, teenagers, apparently sometimes drank 190 proof Everclear and died. Now it is illegal in North California.

And yet in 2018 there were 458 accidental gun-related deaths in the USA. 

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On 9/16/2021 at 6:51 PM, Jeff Krieger said:

OK, after all of this craziness I found out 95% isopropyl alcohol from the corner pharmacy works just fine.

That's all I ever use. Just the smell of denatured alcohol gives me an awful headache.  

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On 9/16/2021 at 6:51 PM, Jeff Krieger said:

OK, after all of this craziness I found out 95% isopropyl alcohol from the corner pharmacy works just fine.

That's all I ever use. Just the smell of denatured alcohol gives me an awful headache.  

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On 9/17/2021 at 4:51 PM, violins88 said:

It’s probably mostly methanol. Check the ingredient.

The main additive usually is 10% methanol (methyl alcohol), hence the name methylated spirits. Other common additives include isopropyl alcohol, acetone, methyl ethyl ketone, and methyl isobutyl ketone. In the United States, mixtures sold as denatured alcohol often have less than 50% ethanol.”

I have bought "denatured alcohol" that was about 50% methanol.  And I wanted to use it for furniture stripping.  Yeah, right.

The name "denatured alcohol" is not well regulated, and as I recall they don't have to label it properly either.  I had get the materials safety sheet to find out what I had bought.

California is absolutely right to ban the stuff.  Years ago it used to be just denatured.  Now it's pure poison.

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