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High End Tailpiece Weight


Morizot
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Does anyone know the approximate weights of any of the Tempel, B & C, or J.S.B. Hill style 108mm or 109mm ebony or boxwood tailpieces? I've gone down the rabbit hole of trying to figure out the best option for a violin I've purchased, and am finding it challenging to get the actual weight info. I've perused the many tailpiece related discussions on here, but have not found much that compares weights across the different higher end brands. Any info or general thoughts on the above options would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

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13 hours ago, Morizot said:

Does anyone know the approximate weights of any of the Tempel, B & C, or J.S.B. Hill style 108mm or 109mm ebony or boxwood tailpieces? I've gone down the rabbit hole of trying to figure out the best option for a violin I've purchased, and am finding it challenging to get the actual weight info. I've perused the many tailpiece related discussions on here, but have not found much that compares weights across the different higher end brands. Any info or general thoughts on the above options would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

It would make sense to contact the manufacturers directly, and get accurate specs from them. They all have a website, with a contact page.

Obviously there will be a difference between boxwood, which is lighter, and ebony, which is denser.

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The best way to optimize your violin is what the great players do..ie.adapt your technique to the instrument you have. Personally if I am selecting a tailpiece for a violin I am setting up weight would be the last of my considerations given the normal parameters. I'd be looking at the width between the tail gut holes.

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Thanks all!

On 9/9/2021 at 8:24 AM, Don Noon said:

Is there a specific weight that you have decided works best on your violin?  If so, how have you determined that?

Hi Don, right now I'm trying to get the best ideas of my options, while weighing various factors in regards to weight. I haven't determined what I think will work best, as frankly it is all going to be a bit of an experiment. The instrument in question has both very piercing qualities that could benefit from being dampened by a heavier tailpiece, as well as a generally quite dark sound that might benefit from a lighter tailpiece.

On 9/9/2021 at 12:09 PM, Wood Butcher said:

It would make sense to contact the manufacturers directly, and get accurate specs from them. They all have a website, with a contact page.

Obviously there will be a difference between boxwood, which is lighter, and ebony, which is denser.

I've had trouble getting specs from the various manufacturers-hence hoping to get information via other sources. I haven't been able to gather enough to compare makers re: weight unfortunately. I realise boxwood will be lighter, but am trying to gleam how much the weight of each wood varies across the main makers.

On 9/9/2021 at 12:33 PM, Deo Lawson said:

Just buy the one that looks the nicest. You may well hear a difference in tone, but the audience certainly won't. They will see how nice your violin looks, though :D

I wish! But, my chins will also definitely cover up my beautiful tailpiece ;).

On 9/9/2021 at 7:24 PM, MeyerFittings said:

Hill tailpieces in 110mm boxwood weighed about 13 gr.  I've made tailpieces from 10g to 18g, on order. The weight will vary with the length, the thickness and the density of the wood. One can make a relatively light tail by hollowing out the underside.

Thanks! I was actually looking at your website yesterday!

6 hours ago, Melvin Goldsmith said:

The best way to optimize your violin is what the great players do..ie.adapt your technique to the instrument you have. Personally if I am selecting a tailpiece for a violin I am setting up weight would be the last of my considerations given the normal parameters. I'd be looking at the width between the tail gut holes.

Thanks Melvin. I've actually been adapting to instruments I've performed on for many years. The current being a Panormo on loan, and prior to that a Ceruti and Rocca for years that I had loaned to me at the same time, a Testore etc. I am no stranger to adapting to the particular set up of a high end instrument. Frankly, there is no "adapting" required for a high level performer in regards to a tailpiece being switched. The concept has never even occurred to me, and isn't a consideration in my opinion. In regards to tailpiece weight, I am purely trying to optimise the sound my instrument might be able to produce. I am not trying to negate other factors that might impact the quality of sound.

I currently have the luxury of setting up instruments I play on in any way I should choose. I know what sound I am aiming to achieve from an instrument and am not making assumptions without reason. Why make decisions without as much information as one can gather; potentially making one's goals harder to achieve? That just seems like cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.

5 hours ago, Gino Yu said:

微信图片_20210911103624.jpg

Thank you!!!

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Well in that case why are you asking here...just buy a stock of all the best tailpieces you can lay your hands on as many will have at hand here and try them. I am not particularly impressed with your roll call of violins. I regularly set up much more exotic stuff for some of the finest living players. I refer you back to my advice re the tail gut widths and the gut itself can be considered.

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10 minutes ago, Melvin Goldsmith said:

Well in that case why are you asking here...just buy a stock of all the best tailpieces you can lay your hands on as many will have at hand here and try them. I am not particularly impressed with your roll call of violins. I regularly set up much more exotic stuff for some of the finest living players. I refer you back to my advice re the tail gut widths and the gut itself can be considered.

 

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16 minutes ago, Melvin Goldsmith said:

Well in that case why are you asking here...just buy a stock of all the best tailpieces you can lay your hands on as many will have at hand here and try them. I am not particularly impressed with your roll call of violins. I regularly set up much more exotic stuff for some of the finest living players. I refer you back to my advice re the tail gut widths and the gut itself can be considered.

It is not a competition Melvin. You do not know me, and I am not interested in one-upping one another in regards to violins. That is not worth my time, atleast. I posted a question hoping that the educated and generous other users on here might be able to save me some time and effort/offer advice. No need to be rude.

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29 minutes ago, Melvin Goldsmith said:

I refer you back to my advice re the tail gut widths and the gut itself can be considered.

 

6 minutes ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

...and the string width/spacing at the fret.

No doubt, but perhaps some more concrete indications would be needed to be of some help to  the OP.:)

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On 9/11/2021 at 9:31 PM, Marty Kasprzyk said:

Should the string spacing and arch shape of the tailpiece fret be the same as the bridge such that the after lengths of strings are parallel or is something else better?

 

On 9/11/2021 at 5:57 PM, Davide Sora said:

 

No doubt, but perhaps some more concrete indications would be needed to be of some help to  the OP.:)

My setup approach for violin generally favors tailpieces with string spacing at the fret approaching the string spacing of the bridge rather than narrower settings (pulling the strings inward).  I prefer the "gut" holes at the base wider than what is supplied by many of the more commercial tailpieces on the market I've seen. I find a number of models produced by Tempel do well for me (but I do have my favorites), and of course, if I can get them, I find @MeyerFittings fittings tailpieces pretty awesome (Hi Eric!). There is also a maker of fittings in England that produces things I like.

I'm also careful about the length I start with of course... excess length modification is a drag, and with most of the quality producers, usually unnecessary.

Sometimes "rules", however, will bite you in the butt if one does not maintain a certain flexibility in ones thinking. I have found exceptions to what spacing works best for certain instruments... or it may be that a different approach in setup may effect what works best for that individual. 

Long and short of it all; Spacing of the gut and/or strings on the tailpiece does affect the parts behavior, I think more than a few grams in weight would tend to.

I hope that's concrete enough? :) 

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1 hour ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

 

My setup approach for violin generally favors tailpieces with string spacing at the fret approaching the string spacing of the bridge rather than narrower settings (pulling the strings inward).  I prefer the "gut" holes at the base wider than what is supplied by many of the more commercial tailpieces on the market I've seen. I find a number of models produced by Tempel do well for me (but I do have my favorites), and of course, if I can get them, I find @MeyerFittings fittings tailpieces pretty awesome (Hi Eric!). There is also a maker of fittings in England that produces things I like.

I'm also careful about the length I start with of course... excess length modification is a drag, and with most of the quality produces, usually unnecessary.

Sometimes "rules", however, will bite you in the butt if one does not maintain a certain flexibility in ones thinking. I have found exceptions to what spacing works best for certain instruments... or it may be that a different approach in setup may effect what works best for that individual. 

Long and short of it all; Spacing of the gut and/or strings on the tailpiece does affect the parts behavior, I think more than a couple grams in weight would tend to.

I hope that's concrete enough? :) 

Flawless explanation, with which I agree and thank you:)

However, I must say that the holes in the tailpiece should not be the same width as the strings on the bridge, but just slightly narrower, that is, where they would end up considering the string in a straight line if viewed perpendicular to the portion of the curve of the bridge where the string lies. I think if they were exactly the same width, there would be a tendency for the strings to slide outward, which would be quite evident if the width of the holes were greater than that of the strings on the bridge.

Hoping that I was able to explain myself in an understandable way(:huh:), could this make sense?

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1 hour ago, Davide Sora said:

Flawless explanation, with which I agree and thank you:)

However, I must say that the holes in the tailpiece should not be the same width as the strings on the bridge, but just slightly narrower, that is, where they would end up considering the string in a straight line if viewed perpendicular to the portion of the curve of the bridge where the string lies.

Depends on the fiddle.

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4 hours ago, Davide Sora said:

However, I must say that the holes in the tailpiece should not be the same width as the strings on the bridge, but just slightly narrower, that is, where they would end up considering the string in a straight line if viewed perpendicular to the portion of the curve of the bridge where the string lies.

Yup... "approaching the string spacing of the bridge" was meant to convey that... sorry if it fell short! 

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