Violin maker ID help and info please

[Inthedark]

Hello all. This is my first post so please be kind. I have a violin (handed down to me) labelled H. DERAZEY and in very good condition. I can find some info online but aware the name was bought and continued after his death. Any info on what those more knowledgeable than me think of this violin would be great. I've played for 30 years, although wouldn't consider myself proficient by any stretch, even so this instrument sounds beautiful (compared with a copy strad which was until now my favourite). 

I will attempt to attach some photos. 

Thank you in advance. 

[chiaroscuro_violins]

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[PhilipKT]

Some people may think it’s silly to continually make the suggestion, but your violin should be accompanied by a bow, and you should investigate the bow as much as you investigate the violin. If there is a bow, please share photos, detailed and close-up of that as well.

[PhilipKT]

By the way, whatever it is, it is in excellent condition and looks quite nice.

[Inthedark]

2 hours ago, chiaroscuro_violins said:

I'm not qualified to tell you what it is, but you should get the end of your A peg dressed properly  by a luthier.  

Thank you. I will do. It is an interesting peg and doesn't match the others. 

[Blank face]

I would guess that it's a good Derazey "model" produced by the Mangenot shop around 1900.

[J-G]

1 hour ago, PhilipKT said:

Some people may think it’s silly to continually make the suggestion...

Yes it certainly is.

The OP may also own a car.  Should we ask about that too? 

[Rothwein]

By all means. A violin should travel in the most luxurious vehicle one can afford. After all, who can travel with a 32foot stop?

[PhilipKT]

8 hours ago, J-G said:

Yes it certainly is.

The OP may also own a car.  Should we ask about that too? 

:-) if the car sounds good and came with the violin, sure. However, how often does a car come with a violin?  
Not often enough… probably rarely enough that your comment is silly, but my question was not.. and the OP shared photos of both her bows with me, and I was grateful. So yes, the violin came with not one but two bows. What a surprise.

[Inthedark]

I do own a car, but hoping this violin is better built than the merc! 

For those knowledgeable about bows too, here are some photos. 

Does anyone know if ancient looking strings made of English gut are worth using? Came with the violin. 

Thank you all for your comments.

 

[martin swan]

18 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

So yes, the violin came with not one but two bows. What a surprise.

And what can you tell us about the bows ...?

[martin swan]

On 8/30/2021 at 12:17 PM, Inthedark said:

Hello all. This is my first post so please be kind. I have a violin (handed down to me) labelled H. DERAZEY and in very good condition. I can find some info online but aware the name was bought and continued after his death. Any info on what those more knowledgeable than me think of this violin would be great. I've played for 30 years, although wouldn't consider myself proficient by any stretch, even so this instrument sounds beautiful (compared with a copy strad which was until now my favourite).

 

It's a very nice looking violin.

I wonder if it isn't slightly better than a Mangenot, but I just don't know enough about Derazeys to be sure. There was quite a long period post-Vuillaume where demand slightly outstripped his ability to make them, so maybe this is one of those "Derazey Workshop" instruments.

What is the back length? The genuine examples are often oversized.

[PhilipKT]

20 minutes ago, martin swan said:

And what can you tell us about the bows ...?

I can say “show them to Martin!”

I have my own thoughts, but I’d rather keep quiet and let the experts chime in.

[Inthedark]

12 minutes ago, martin swan said:

It's a very nice looking violin.

I wonder if it isn't slightly better than a Mangenot, but I just don't know enough about Derazeys to be sure. There was quite a long period post-Vuillaume where demand slightly outstripped his ability to make them, so maybe this is one of those "Derazey Workshop" instruments.

What is the back length? The genuine examples are often oversized.

Thank you. It measures 362mm. 

[J-G]

Thank you for sharing your bows with us, ITD.

And for sparing us the Merc. 

[Wood Butcher]

21 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

I can say “show them to Martin!”

I have my own thoughts, but I’d rather keep quiet and let the experts chime in.

You could at least have had a go at the easier of the two to identify, couldn't you?

[Shelbow]

Looks like a very low quality modern Chinese bow out of some random wood and a German trade bow also not great quality probably out of Abeille.

[martin swan]

17 minutes ago, Shelbow said:

Looks like a very low quality modern Chinese bow out of some random wood and a German trade bow also not great quality probably out of Abeille.

Indeed, the quality of the bows doesn't relate in any way to the quality of the violin. 

I think it's a bad idea to assume that bows can tell us anything about violins or vice versa. Particularly with auction "finds", since so many dodgy dealers put together packages which will appeal to the naive buyer ...

[PhilipKT]

4 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

You could at least have had a go at the easier of the two to identify, couldn't you?

Well they both look very cheap but one of them looks modern, probably Chinese, with a half lined frog. Silver mounted, though, So maybe it is a better class of student bow? The other is old, worn, nickel it looks different from Pernambuco. There was another comment saying it was maybe Abielle And that’s what I thought, or maybe snakewood, but I don’t know enough about wood to comment.

 

[PhilipKT]

3 hours ago, martin swan said:

Indeed, the quality of the bows doesn't relate in any way to the quality of the violin. 

I think it's a bad idea to assume that bows can tell us anything about violins or vice versa. Particularly with auction "finds", since so many dodgy dealers put together packages which will appeal to the naive buyer ...

Yes Martin I understand that, but when you find a real instrument that has really been in the closet for 50 years, then presumably the bow has also been in the closet for 50 years alongside the violin. The example that you mention, of crooked dealers making a package designed to fool people, is very real and very common, But you never know when you’re going to find the real thing, so there’s no reason not to look.

[PhilipKT]

For instance, here is a normal violin with a bow stamped Nurnberger.

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/110288384
 

the stamp appears to be missing the “Albert” or other first name, and the photo is so closeup its impossible to really look at the bow, but it looks like an interesting bow.

[Wood Butcher]

5 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

Well they both look very cheap but one of them looks modern, probably Chinese, with a half lined frog. Silver mounted, though, So maybe it is a better class of student bow?

Silver?! No, that is chrome 

[PhilipKT]

8 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

Silver?! No, that is chrome 

That is not silver? The tarnish made it look like silver, well that makes me feel better, because the bow looks cheap But I was giving it points for being silver mounted. Thank you very much,  Herr Professor!

Edited September 1, 2021 by PhilipKT

[Inthedark]

Hi all. So I took the violin and bows to a local luthier today. He was absolutely stunned by the quality of the instrument. He has worked on H. Derazey before but said this was better by a long way. He also said he'd previously played on the Huberman strad and this instrument would sing on a par with that. I'm not sure if that's a compliment to Derazey or if strad is over rated, but either way I'd best get my standard of playing up!

As well as being oversized in body, it also weighs a lot less than other violins. 

As for the bows, one is cheap. The other would be decent but has lost its flex. So not in great shape. I will invest in a decent bow at some point. 

I had to ask the question. Should this violin go to my 10 year old to learn to play on, as was originally intended. The luthier's answer was a resounding no! 

Thanks all for your thoughts and help. I'm not any closer to a value but I'm keeping it so it doesn't matter. Just want it to sound beautiful and be loved and played.