Is it real h.derazey？

[amo3o]

I don't know this is real h.derazey?But I bought it cost ＄ 50,000 in  2014 in China.

[jacobsaunders]

Not my area of interest, but I expect it is far more lightly to be something like a Mangenot, or one of the others Mangenot, catalogue, 1897, Mirecourt (luthiers-mirecourt.com)

[martin swan]

I concur with Jacob. This is a much later violin made under license and carrying the Derazey brand - either Mangenot or more likely Laberte, who acquired this brand in 1927.

I know China is the Wild West (as it were) when it comes to violin sales, but $50k would be quite a high price even for a genuine (certified) Honoré Derazey made by the man himself. For this violin, which is a later trade instrument carrying the Derazey brand, the price is absurd. 

If you look at what comes up on Google, the pricing of these various Derazey branded instruments is obviously a dark art, but a Mangenot or Laberte example can't be more valuable than any other of their better student models, so $7-10k would be the most one might pay for a particularly fine one. This one has a very ugly crack running down the back from the button, so I'm not sure I would charge that much, particularly if it's on the big side which they often are ...

 

[amo3o]

On 2021/8/27 at PM6点50分, martin swan said:

我同意雅各布的观点。这是一款较晚的小提琴，获得许可并带有 Derazey 品牌——Mangenot 或更可能是 Laberte，后者于 1927 年收购了该品牌。

我知道中国在小提琴销售方面是狂野的西部（事实上），但即使对于由他本人制造的真正（经过认证的）Honoré Derazey 来说，5 万美元的价格也是相当高的。对于这把提琴，这是后来带有Derazey品牌的贸易乐器，价格是荒谬的。 

如果你看看谷歌上出现的情况，这些各种 Derazey 品牌乐器的定价显然是一门黑暗艺术，但 Mangenot 或 Laberte 示例不会比任何其他更好的学生模型更有价值，所以 7-10,000 美元成为一个特别好的人可能付出的最多的代价。这个从按钮的背面有一个非常难看的裂缝，所以我不确定我会收取那么多费用，特别是如果它在他们经常出现的大一侧......

 

 but，this one  is’t leberte’ label and brand

[jacobsaunders]

22 minutes ago, amo3o said:

 but，this one  is’t leberte’ label and brand

Mangenot, and later Labert bought the name, brand and label from the widdow, and continued producing “Derazay’s in large numbers for decades after Derazays death, as you can see in their respective catalogues (I linked above). A genuine Derazay is considerably older than yours

[Delabo]

22 minutes ago, amo3o said:

but，this one  is’t leberte’ label and brand

Buying companies so as to keep using the brand name is very common. So Laberte bought the rights to the name and stamp and carried on using the Derazey stamp and labels.

[Violinjon]

Here are photos of my real H Derazey for comparison. Sorry about your purchase. I also live in east Asia, and purchasing violins here, especially your area, can truly be the Wild West, as Martin states. Did you buy from a shop or an individual? 

[amo3o]

On 8/29/2021 at 1:32 AM, Violinjon said:

Here are photos of my real H Derazey for comparison. Sorry about your purchase. I also live in east Asia, and purchasing violins here, especially your area, can truly be the Wild West, as Martin states. Did you buy from a shop or an individual? 

individual，i know my instructment isnot real H.derazey, but,It isn't laberte or mengenot 

[martin swan]

5 hours ago, amo3o said:

individual，i know my instructment isnot real H.derazey, but,It isn't laberte or mengenot 

Then I’m not sure why you are asking for opinions here …

If the label and brand are original to the instrument, it must be one of the two.

Furthermore, if you bought it for $50k you must have believed it to be a genuine H Derazey. So I’m finding your position pretty confusing, and I think you are perhaps confusing yourself.

[outofnames]

Martin,

In your experience, can one differentiate a Derazey branded instrument and the shop it came from based on whether it’s a one piece or two piece back?

Or did both Laberte and Mangenot elect to switch freely back and forth between the two?

[Violinjon]

I am not the expert you want, but I do know that my H Derazey has a one piece top as well as back! I heard that was a feature of his, although alone it cannot of course be enough to identify with certainty.

[amo3o]

5 hours ago, martin swan said:

那我不知道你为什么在这里征求意见......

如果标签和品牌是乐器的原创，则必须是两者之一。

此外，如果您以 5 万美元的价格购买它，您一定相信它是真正的 H Derazey。所以我发现你的立场很混乱，我想你可能是在混淆你自己。

sorry，sir.I know I bought it at a high price and this is a very fake instrument.I just want to express this instrument has its own particular label，which is totally different from laberte's，please pay attention to the people portrait，which is completely different.As long as you observe carefully, you can find many differences in details，for instance， the hair.

[martin swan]

2 hours ago, amo3o said:

sorry，sir.I know I bought it at a high price and this is a very fake instrument.I just want to express this instrument has its own particular label，which is totally different from laberte's，please pay attention to the people portrait，which is completely different.As long as you observe carefully, you can find many differences in details，for instance， the hair.

Then it’s probably safe to assume that this is a Mangenot instrument as Jacob suggested … but are you comparing with an actual Laberte label or with the facsimile in one of their catalogues?