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So what did this turn out to be?? What is this Violin?


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I had the same question...55K, plus fees... The dates are validated, so it's clerly old, but...66K?  Clearly someone thought it identifiable. 

Bid history is unremarkable, it wasn't a bidding war between 2 people as some others are that go for excessive prices...

DATE & TIME BIDDER ID AMOUNT
Jul 20 11:00 Guguteolina $10,000
Jul 20 11:00 ag1666 $11,000
Jul 22 19:36 lionnest $12,000
Jul 29 22:51 Bacchus $13,000
Aug 2 12:42 ag1666 $14,000
Aug 5 08:26 GuiR $15,000
Aug 5 08:58 ag1666 $16,000
Aug 5 08:26 GuiR $16,000
Aug 5 08:58 ag1666 $17,000
Aug 5 10:45 dzigibau $18,000
Aug 5 11:05 jaboo $19,000
Aug 5 11:27 ag1666 $20,000
Aug 5 12:45 Ideal $21,000
Aug 5 12:56 lionnest $22,000
Aug 5 13:11 Ideal $23,000
Aug 5 13:14 Bowjob69 $24,000
Aug 5 14:31 lionnest $25,000
Aug 5 13:14 Bowjob69 $25,000
Aug 5 14:32 lionnest $27,500
Aug 5 14:35 Bacchus $30,000
Aug 5 14:40 lionnest $32,500
Aug 5 15:02 Guguteolina $35,000
Aug 5 15:03 Bacchus $37,500
Aug 5 15:02 Guguteolina $37,500
Aug 5 15:12 lionnest $40,000
Aug 5 15:12 Guguteolina $42,500
Aug 5 15:19 lionnest $45,000
Aug 5 15:31 dzigibau $47,500
Aug 5 15:48 Bacchus $50,000
Aug 5 15:52 dzigibau $55,000
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A friend of mine has a Cello that has quite a history, allegedly a Paulo Antonio Testori. The Dendro Identified one of the pieces of the top wood as dating from after Testori died, but there are lots of pieces in the top. Testori Offered to run it through T2, With a low reserve, and low starting bid, on the grounds that enough people would think it was legit that it would sell for a high price. My friend declined, but the same thinking might have resulted in this event. It is a lovely violin. I wonder what the condition report showed?

Edited by PhilipKT
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41 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

A friend of mine has a Cello that has quite a history, allegedly a Paulo Antonio Testori. The Dendro Identified one of the pieces of the top wood as dating from after Testori died, but there are lots of pieces in the top. Testori Offered to run it through T2, With a low reserve, and low starting bid, on the grounds that enough people would think it was legit that it would sell for a high price. My friend declined, but the same thinking might have resulted in this event. It is a lovely violin. I wonder what the condition report showed?

 

IMG_20210806_175745.jpg

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Just now, Shelbow said:

Well it doesn't have a back SP crack so that is something

It had a visible cross-grain crack on the back just below the soundpost - I think they sent an amended condition report out to that effect. I'm guessing we won't learn what the pros thought it was, although the late dendro narrows the field a bit for something that swanky.

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  • Shelbow changed the title to So what did this turn out to be?? What is this Violin?

It sold at Christies in 2012 for $37500 (incl. fees, so presumaby 30000 hammer) as 'School of Antonio Stradivari'. Back then it came with a valuation by Albert Hamma, 1933, identifying it as Stradivari, valuing the instrument at 40000 Reichsmark (equivalent of 15 kg gold); another certificate by Isaac Stern (no, not him!) from 1942 calls it a Pietro Guarneri of Mantua - both obviously not possible if the dendro-report is correct.

NB! The Hamma valuation is certified by a notary, but the relevant archive has no record of such a document ...

There is a nasty crack on the back (treble), running from the lower edge and then twice cross-grain to the middle, missing the soundpost by about 1 cm. Also the edges around the entire top and most of the lower bouts are renewed.

I was quite intrigued what this may be, especially post 1766 - my closest shots would have been Nicolo Gagliano or perhaps Nicolo Bergonzi, imitating earlier work. The fact that the maple on back, ribs, and scroll does not not really match made me think that it may be composite. Also the entirely renewed edges could be an indication that a later top was fitted to a different instrument. Notably, A. Hamma, produced such mongrels, e.g., from the Strad back he bought from Hill where he had the rest forged around it (much to Hill's distress).

But I'd love to be enlightend about what others think - I certainly was out long before the 55k.

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12 hours ago, Giovanni Valentini said:

It sold at Christies in 2012 for $37500 (incl. fees, so presumaby 30000 hammer) as 'School of Antonio Stradivari'. Back then it came with a valuation by Albert Hamma, 1933, identifying it as Stradivari, valuing the instrument at 40000 Reichsmark (equivalent of 15 kg gold); another certificate by Isaac Stern (no, not him!) from 1942 calls it a Pietro Guarneri of Mantua - both obviously not possible if the dendro-report is correct.

NB! The Hamma valuation is certified by a notary, but the relevant archive has no record of such a document ...

There is a nasty crack on the back (treble), running from the lower edge and then twice cross-grain to the middle, missing the soundpost by about 1 cm. Also the edges around the entire top and most of the lower bouts are renewed.

I was quite intrigued what this may be, especially post 1766 - my closest shots would have been Nicolo Gagliano or perhaps Nicolo Bergonzi, imitating earlier work. The fact that the maple on back, ribs, and scroll does not not really match made me think that it may be composite. Also the entirely renewed edges could be an indication that a later top was fitted to a different instrument. Notably, A. Hamma, produced such mongrels, e.g., from the Strad back he bought from Hill where he had the rest forged around it (much to Hill's distress).

But I'd love to be enlightend about what others think - I certainly was out long before the 55k.

Wow... 

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https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-5622555

SCHOOL OF ANTONIO STRADIVARI

A VIOLIN, PROBABLY ITALY, CIRCA 1770

Price realised USD 37,500

Estimate

USD 30,000 - USD 50,000

Closed: 26 Nov 2012

SCHOOL OF ANTONIO STRADIVARI
A VIOLIN, PROBABLY ITALY, CIRCA 1770
Labeled Antonius Stradivarius Cremonensis Faciebat Anno 1700, length of back: 13 15/16 in. (354 mm) with case (3)

Lot Essay

Certificate: Albert Hamma, Munich, September 9, 1933 (copy); J. Stern, New York, September 24, 1942
Dendrochronology: John Topham, Redhill, UK, March 3, 2012. The tree-ring analysis report dates the youngest growth rings on the bass side of the top to the year 1752 and the treble side to 1766.

Condition Report

Top Treble: There is a repaired crack extending from the lower lobe of the treble f-hole down to the bottom edge. There are two repaired cracks extending 2 cm and 3 cm up from the saddle on the treble side as well as a repaired wing crack.
Top Bass: There is a repaired crack extending 6 cm down from the upper bass edge near the neck block. There is a repaired crack running from the lower bass edge to just below the lower corner and a repaired crack extending 8 cm up from the saddle on the bass side.
Back: There is a repaired crack running from the lower treble edge to the treble C-bout and two repaired crack extending off the crack to the center seam. There is a repaired crack running from the from the center seam to the lower bout on the bass side just below the corner and a repaired crack running 5 cm parallel to the center seam on the bass side.
Sides: There is a repaired crack extending from the back to the table on the upper bass bout near the neck block. There are two repaired cracks, extending 5 cm and 2 cm, through the upper treble rib and a 5 cm long repaired crack running through the treble C-bout.
Scroll: The neck has been grafted and the pegholes bushed.
Diagram is available on request.

The instrument is setup and in playing condition

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8 hours ago, fragslap said:

Anyone know what it SOUNDED like?  I could care less who made the instrument. I would just want it to SOUND like it's worth 50-60 grand.

Er...what exactly is that sound?

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It seems like there are runaway auction results like this from time to time - does anyone try and keep track of what becomes of them? Most people know the story of the “attributed to Nemessanyi” that ended up being a mid-30s del Gesu - are there any other great stories like that (or about runaway auction lots that just flopped)?

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