Is this possibly a German Trade violin?

[Patty00]

Hello everyone,

I am about to embark on restoring this violin to playable spec and keen to understand where/when it was made.
Originally when i purchased it five years ago from a seller who advised that it had been appraised and is "most likely" a circa late 1920's German Trade violin. Frustratingly the label doesn't tell my inexperienced eyes very much.

If anyone has the skill to assess what it might be /when/where it was made I would be rapt.
Otherwise any suggestions on who in Melbourne Australia is best placed to take a look at it (for a fee naturally).

Thanks
 

Edited August 1, 2021 by Patty00
added internal shot

[jacobsaunders]

Its a cottage industry violin from the Markneukirchen/Schönbach area from +/- 1900, which some idiot has stripped the varnish off. Quite what has happened to the neck is difficult to make out from your photos

[Patty00]

Ok thanks for the intel! Stripped as in removed and varnished again? There's a solid coat on top albeit a little worse for wear. It was purchased from a deceased estate and apparently the person who owned it had a few of these which he liked to repair, so it might be possible. The neck has been "repaired" and it looks like it was done to perhaps save keeping the scroll with the instrument or replace with a similar.

edit: hahahaha, I see. The back plate reveals all!

Edited August 1, 2021 by Patty00
I see the light

[GeorgeH]

Hi @Patty00,

Welcome to MN and thanks for posting your pictures. Sadly, the bad news is that this violin has been essentially destroyed by removing the original varnish and the horrible neck repair, and is not worth restoring. The only good news is that it was a very inexpensive violin even in good condition.

If you're keen on restoring a cheap old German trade violin, there are dozens available in much better condition at very low prices on internet auction sites.

[Patty00]

22 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

Hi @Patty00,

Welcome to MN and thanks for posting your pictures. Sadly, the bad news is that this violin has been essentially destroyed by removing the original varnish and the horrible neck repair, and is not worth restoring. The only good news is that it was a very inexpensive violin even in good condition.

If you're keen on restoring a cheap old German trade violin, there are dozens available in much better condition at very low prices on internet auction sites.

Thanks George, happy to be here! I suspect it might end up in the slowly but surely and a labour of love bucket for the ugly duckling which may only ever grow up to be a duck hanging on a wall. In the more immediate future I might search for a better condition instrument on some of the auction sites as you suggested (thankfully MN has a few posts with links to help avoid the likes of Ebay). 

[Patty00]

So I decided to open it up (motivated by rattling lining + the top plate and ribs was breathing a little... + a good opp to replace the neck).

And...... No corner blocks! Just like in this article. https://www.thestrad.com/lutherie/cutting-corner-blocks-inside-the-markneukirchen-violin-factory/13450.article

Edited February 18, 2022 by Patty00
added link to post which could be helpful to others

[Wood Butcher]

On 8/1/2021 at 4:34 PM, Patty00 said:

The neck has been "repaired"

 

On 8/1/2021 at 4:04 PM, jacobsaunders said:

Quite what has happened to the neck is difficult to make out from your photos

It’s an American neck graft!

[Patty00]

34 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

 

It’s an American neck graft!

It snapped :/ and would warp badly with temperature changes unfortunately

[FiddleDoug]

It used to be a German cottage industry violin until it was stripped, varnished, and "repaired" by some hack who had no clue what he was doing. Sure is ugly!

[Blank face]

16 hours ago, Patty00 said:

And...... No corner blocks! Just like in this article. https://www.thestrad.com/lutherie/cutting-corner-blocks-inside-the-markneukirchen-violin-factory/13450.article

Fact is that it simply doesn't matter if a built on the back violin (and there are of course many exceptional fine) has no blocks, fake blocks of thin plates or somebody bothered to install "proper" ones. There are other features being much more important.

The linked article shows an interesting view into a Markneukirchen shop full of the often discussed Thau machines. Also important that it descibes that there were still some (more or less) skilled and trained craftpersons necessary to finish and assemble the milled parts, just in opposite to the claims of the notorious Mr. Stratton of Leipzig and his naive believers.

Ther rest is the usual misinterpretation of Schönbach vs Markneukirchen (in fact most of the roughly carved Schönbach boxes were delievered to the Markneukirchen industry), not to mention the dismissive comments on 16th and 17th century alleged Germanic violin construction methods. As far as I'm informed all violin making is using methods developed basically in the 16th century.