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On 7/20/2021 at 7:44 PM, PhilipKT said:

In this part of Texas there are never very many shops, but there were two or three other shops locally, but people came to Jay from all over people regularly came from Shreveport Louisiana or down from Oklahoma to have him work on their stuff. They would make arrangements to bring the violin or cello or whatever when he opened and pick it up at the end of the day and then they would spend the day in Dallas doing whatever tourists do in Dallas. He was also fairly close to Southern Methodist University, and downtown Dallas which is where the Dallas Symphony Orchestra rehearses, so he got a lot of their business as well.
But Jay is one of the most beloved people in the local music business. People will go to him wherever he is.

When the rent went up in Oak Cliff he did move to a more central location in 2004, and then he Semi retired in 2019, works out of his house, and people still go to him.

Here, it seems, we are spoilt for choice. Most cities have several string shops to choose from, although some are best avoided if you have anything much better than a Maidstone.

Because of the larger numbers of establishments, you really have to be in the midst of it, so a central location is vital. If you can be somewhere with good transport links, it might still work out, but it seems people don't want to travel too far here, for repair work.
I think it can be different for retail, if you can make your place worthy of a day out.

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7 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

Here, it seems, we are spoilt for choice. Most cities have several string shops to choose from, although some are best avoided if you have anything much better than a Maidstone.

Because of the larger numbers of establishments, you really have to be in the midst of it, so a central location is vital. If you can be somewhere with good transport links, it might still work out, but it seems people don't want to travel too far here, for repair work.
I think it can be different for retail, if you can make your place worthy of a day out.

I think you are in Germany or Austria, where things are much closer to each other. Also there is of course a huge tradition of violin making In your neck of the woods. Not for nothing would a list of the 10 greatest composers of all time include seven or eight Germans.

I think it would be fascinating to live in a town with five or six maker shops within easy distance of each other. I wonder if the buying public would be educated enough to keep them all in business, or if they would just head for the local musical instrument version of Walmart And buy the cheapest shiniest “made- yesterday” violin.

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The rest of the story....

Today I returned the rental and picked up my violin with the new bridge and had a most exasperating confrontation with the lady who runs the shop.

First of all, I showed her where the sound post was and asked what she thought of it's position and suggested that is was not quite where it should be and she said something like... well everyone has their own idea of where it should be.  I said that I can't find anyone who thinks it should be 15 mm south of the foot.

Then I showed her how the profile on top of the bridge did not fit the standard test tool nor did the spacing between strings and fingerboard. She said we have been doing this for 40 years and should know what we are doing.

At this point I decided to check the work on my violin and found it marginally acceptable so I paid with a grumble and left.

Unfortunately, I forgot to look at the sound post because I assumed they wouldn't change it but when I got home and looked at it, I gasped.  It is 10 mm south of the bridge foot.

Not sure what to do at this point but its a two hour drive and I am not very happy.

(Shop name redacted) - This is not the platform to name and shame people or businesses - Mod Team (Shelbow)

Jack

 
-- 
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber, Gems,
Nature, Radio, Sheep, Sausage, Silver
         http://schmidling.com
 
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On 7/18/2021 at 8:16 PM, FiddleDoug said:

"I am not a luthier and I could do a cello bridge "while you wait.""

The big question is- what kind of quality is your "while you wait" cello bridge???

It probably takes me about 45 min. to do a nice quality bridge for a violin. I suppose that you could call up a shop, and say "I want to reserve a luthier for an hour, to make a bridge, at 2pm on Tuesday" You could then give them your credit card info, so that if you don't show, they can charge you (like missed doctor's appointments). Rates are probably $70/hr or so.

Looking back at this conversation, do you think we live in wrong part (western NY) of this country?

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Jack,

Your pic shows the bridge near the f-hole notch, as it should be. The bridge should be 195/196 mm from the top edge.  You should ask which luthier did the work. I know your story isn’t amusing to you, but I am interested in the outcome.

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I think I confused things a bit.  The orig pic was of the rental instrument and the one here is my violin after they replaced the bridge.  As can be seen here the bridge is in the right place but the C to C distance between bridge and sound post is about 10 mm.  It was less than half that when I brought it in.

I was told that the guy who did it was on a fishing trip.

 

Jack

 

POST9.JPG

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2 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

Nobody I know measures the centre to centre distance between bridge and sound post, rather the gap between the two

I don’t know anyone who would do that either, or measure against the outside of the arch with a ruler, while guessing where the post is.

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7 hours ago, JackSchmidling said:

I think I confused things a bit.  The orig pic was of the rental instrument and the one here is my violin after they replaced the bridge.  As can be seen here the bridge is in the right place but the C to C distance between bridge and sound post is about 10 mm.  It was less than half that when I brought it in.

I was told that the guy who did it was on a fishing trip.

 

Jack

 

POST9.JPG

Apart from measuring the location of the sound post in a different way, I would also consider using a more accurate ruler, because the first mm on the ruler in the photo looks like it is almost 2 mm.

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16 hours ago, JackSchmidling said:


The rest of the story....

Today I returned the rental and picked up my violin with the new bridge and had a most exasperating confrontation with the lady who runs the shop.

First of all, I showed her where the sound post was and asked what she thought of it's position and suggested that is was not quite where it should be and she said something like... well everyone has their own idea of where it should be.  I said that I can't find anyone who thinks it should be 15 mm south of the foot.

Then I showed her how the profile on top of the bridge did not fit the standard test tool nor did the spacing between strings and fingerboard. She said we have been doing this for 40 years and should know what we are doing.

At this point I decided to check the work on my violin and found it marginally acceptable so I paid with a grumble and left.

Unfortunately, I forgot to look at the sound post because I assumed they wouldn't change it but when I got home and looked at it, I gasped.  It is 10 mm south of the bridge foot.

Not sure what to do at this point but its a two hour drive and I am not very happy.

I was not going to mention names but this is too much and the world needs to know that the nice folks at __________________ are incompetent to do anything more that tune a violin.

Jack

 
-- 
Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber, Gems,
Nature, Radio, Sheep, Sausage, Silver
         http://schmidling.com
 

Your name and shame effort, based on a shop's perceived incompetence, is quite disgraceful.
You have shown yourself, that you have no idea how to measure a soundpost placement, and therefore your idea of what is correct is heavily flawed, showing incompetence also.

All of this makes your original gripe a moot point, since you never measured the rental one correctly either, and then proceeded to have a fit of indignation.

You should consider editing your post, and remove the name of the shop.

 

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Dear All, I have now removed the shop name from the post.

In case anyone is in any doubt, this forum is not a platform to be used to name and shame individuals or businesses. 

If you have a grievance over a service provided to you then you are of course welcome to seek advice from the knowledgeable members on here, but please do not post personal or business details of those involved.

Where possible always try to resolve issues in an amicable way with all the parties involved. Failing that you could seek advice from professional service bodies / watchdogs that may oversee that sector.

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I think we are talking semantics here but I stand corrected and thank you for removing the name of the shop.

Center to Center means the same thing to everyone on Earth no matter what they are making or doing.

Here is an example of the problem.. FM says "anywhere from up to the bridge to a bridge thickness behind".

I have seen under the foot, overlapping the edges and various spacings between the edges.

As an engineer, I defend C to C as an unambiguous method of describing the position but recognize the standard practice as just another bad idea that just goes on because it goes on.

Sorry

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We don't measure center to center for many reasons ranging from different post diameters to the fact that a non-engineer violin maker decided otherwise god knows how long ago.

The "traditional" placement of the post is: the appx. thickness of the top behind the bridge and a lateral position comparable to the placement of the bass bar, then start moving from there. 

Engineers, a few excepted, have attempted to apply Engineering techniques to violins for many years. It doesn't work out so well much of the time. A good many fine violin makers were illiterate. Somewhere in the middle works, but you can't force your "recognized standard" way upon a trade that is sooo not standardized. Except for where the post goes. 

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