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Can somebody explain why there is so much legitimate good stuff at the current T2?

The Testori cello Is one of the ugliest things I’ve ever laid eyes on, but it has very good papers. And the Nürnberger cello bow Has no major damage and looks incredible.

Any thoughts?

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48 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

Can somebody explain why there is so much legitimate good stuff at the current T2?

The Testori cello Is one of the ugliest things I’ve ever laid eyes on, but it has very good papers. And the Nürnberger cello bow Has no major damage and looks incredible.

Any thoughts?

Does that letter really constitute what people consider "very good papers"? I'd have thought that mid-20th century "school-of" letters (without photos to go along with them) would be pretty meaningless to most dealers, although I could be wrong.

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2 hours ago, Three13 said:

Does that letter really constitute what people consider "very good papers"? I'd have thought that mid-20th century "school-of" letters (without photos to go along with them) would be pretty meaningless to most dealers, although I could be wrong.

Wurlitzer papers are very well thought of, so yes I would expect that they would be respected today, although there’s certainly been a lot of scholarship since then, plus we have wood analysis that wasn’t available back then, so they may be obsolete, but in the absence of any information canceling them out, I’m prepared to take them at face value, although I’m not the least bit interested in the cello.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

You can wipe your bum with those specific Wurlizer “papers” (photo-copy actually)

Really? I thought Wurlitzer papers were well respected.

edit: 

ha! At the time I made my comment I had not read the papers actually, I just seen that the cello had papers from Wurlitzer. I have just read the papers where they identify the cello as Milanese And “school of” Testori.

So the papers themselves Make no claim to a specific maker.Make no claim to a specific maker.

Edited by PhilipKT
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1 hour ago, Wood Butcher said:

Is it all legitimate good stuff? I don't think one can speculate on that without having viewed them personally.

Well of course it isn’t all legit, But the Nürnberger bow sure looks nice, and I’ve seen a few other things that look “real”

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3 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

Yes, things you'd struggle to sell at a shop, will easily sell at auction when the keyboard warriors have the scent of a bargain.

I’ve sworn them off. I’ve realized the value of an honest dealer and would prefer to deal with one of them.

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21 hours ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

And as long as they have amateurs that think things look "real" they'll have no end of clients.

 

20 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

Yes, things you'd struggle to sell at a shop, will easily sell at auction when the keyboard warriors have the scent of a bargain.

https://t2-auctions.com/auctions/lot/?csid=2199502848&cpid=3741417472&filter_key=
 

Again, I have sworn off auctions in favor of working with reputable dealer, but heavens, that looks nice.

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I imagine things at T2 are there for a reason, which ones we don't know... Not that they aren't quality instruments or not worth purchasing, but they aren't listed in the "fine" auctions for one reason or another.  It could just be a question of timing, maybe somebody wants to sell something sooner rather than wait for the fine auctions. Or maybe somebody has stock that has sat at the shop for 15 years that they want to unload.  Basically it's up to the buyer to evaluate the quality, what provenance is provided, and make their own decision as to what they are willing to pay. 

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I looked at cello bows, just out of curiosity. Unstamped, unattributed, nickel-mounted bows are expected to bring at least $800 or in some instances more than double that. Seems a bit optimistic to me, but it's certainly proof that I'd have no business bidding. 

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This leads me to a crystal ball prediction....that these lower quality instruments will continue to 'rise in value' so to speak; especially given the fact that the fine instruments are starting become out of reach for the average seasoned professional player. I'm sure if you told someone 50 years ago the future value of a Stradivarius instrument in 2021 they would laugh! 

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1 hour ago, Schwartzinc said:

This leads me to a crystal ball prediction....that these lower quality instruments will continue to 'rise in value' so to speak; especially given the fact that the fine instruments are starting become out of reach for the average seasoned professional player. I'm sure if you told someone 50 years ago the future value of a Stradivarius instrument in 2021 they would laugh! 

Some Maestronetters hardly need a new vindication or encouragement to collect rubbish;)

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

Some Maestronetters hardly need a new vindication or encouragement to collect rubbish;)

Speaking for myself, I am not interested in Beeswood, brazilwood, or nickel mountings.

However, if I had not sworn off auctions completely, I would be highly interested in that lovely Nürnberger cello bow.

but no!

”Get thee behind me, Satan!”

Edited by PhilipKT
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1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

Some Maestronetters hardly need a new vindication or encouragement to collect rubbish;)

I'm not that much in favor of collecting violins.  I'm a great advocate of training yourself to recognize modestly priced violins that will fill your musical needs, as well as to do professionally adequate setups and repairs on them.  :)

In the current cut-throat state of the business (as evidenced in many threads similar to this), becoming a successful "rubbish dealer" yourself is probably the best defense.  Flipping them isn't collecting them.  :P  :lol:  pirateship.gif.15b1ad1c86413acb8c8f73add4860997.gif

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On 7/20/2021 at 7:20 AM, PhilipKT said:

Speaking for myself, I am not interested in Beeswood, brazilwood, or nickel mountings.

However, if I had not sworn off auctions completely, I would be highly interested in that lovely Nürnberger cello bow.

but no!

”Get thee behind me, Satan!”

I'd happily take a Beeswood Dodd or early Tubbs of such inferior raw material!

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37 minutes ago, duane88 said:

I'd happily take a Beeswood Dodd or early Tubbs of such inferior raw material!

Oh absolutely, I certainly would too, I think Peccatte used Abielle too. But these particular bows Have no particular Pedegree, so I would be reluctant to risk anything on them

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