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tango
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Hi

How flat must be a plane sole for center joint wood work? 
This plane have a gap less than 0,08 mm.

This 0,08mm is the thinnest metal sheet I have to measure and I can´t pass through the gap. The light seem as it would be higer but not.
Must I continue flattening the sole as I can?

cepillo concavidad.jpg

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3rd vote for not flat enough.

Additionally, if you're only using a straght edge to check, you need to check at diagonals and at the edges to make sure there's no twist in the body.  Best is to use a surface plate.  Even better is to get a good, flat plane to start with, if you can afford it.

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Do you think Strad's or Amati's wooden planes were straighter than this? Today's violin makers seem to be posessed with precision of aircraft engineers using granite slabs flat to 0.000something for assesing flatnes of rib cage. Ain't that ironic when you look at the crude tools of the old guys the modern makers are trying to copy. :-)

I'd say just sharpen it and give it a go at some maple ro similar hardwood. You will see the result in wood. Of course much depends on your skill. Sometimes beginners cannot get good results with perfectly flat Veritas or LN plane.

BTW what is it? Looks like Stanley#5 or such.

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In my younger days I tried to make center joints with the very old Stanley my dad gave me (used for many years in his carpentry workshop, apparently not straight anymore ) Difficult to perform, until I bought a brand new one, that made it a lot easier.

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What HoGo said.  But wood soles are easier to flatten though. And that does look like a pretty big gap.  Give that one a try on some scrap wood first and see what the results are.  If you do try to flatten that one do it with the blade in it.  I have one that size for jointing but have never checked to see how flat it is.  

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5 hours ago, HoGo said:

Do you think Strad's or Amati's wooden planes were straighter than this? Today's violin makers seem to be posessed with precision of aircraft engineers using granite slabs flat to 0.000something for assesing flatnes of rib cage. Ain't that ironic when you look at the crude tools of the old guys the modern makers are trying to copy. :-)

I'd say just sharpen it and give it a go at some maple ro similar hardwood. You will see the result in wood. Of course much depends on your skill. Sometimes beginners cannot get good results with perfectly flat Veritas or LN plane.

BTW what is it? Looks like Stanley#5 or such.

Considering that their joints have lasted years I would assume their planes were better than the OP's.

My jointer is a wooden Ulmia which I tuned with a scraper 35 years ago to have a tiny drop from the blade toward the heel. I haven't had to change it since, have made hundreds of instruments with it and to date am unaware of any failed joints.

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1 hour ago, Andreas Preuss said:

I think each plane must be adjusted to the person who uses it. I adjusted mine just on the basis of trial and error with the goal to make a joint of a violin maple back in 10 minutes. This kind of speed is really no miracle if the tools are tuned to the point.

I agree. The test of the plane is whether or not it works for you but I would be surprised to find that a sole that is concave lengthwise would be able to take very fine shavings in the center of a violin back joint. Being able to press the center of the plane to the center of the joint is required. Everything else is to some degree personal preference. 

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17 hours ago, tango said:

Hi

How flat must be a plane sole for center joint wood work? 

Place a small accurate T square on the side of the plane and check for squareness. 

No matter how flat the sole one cannot get a true plane of wood without the plane being square to itself.  I'm sure there is a way to get squareness but still.  I hope that translates well.  

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1 hour ago, uncle duke said:

Place a small accurate T square on the side of the plane and check for squareness. 

No matter how flat the sole one cannot get a true plane of wood without the plane being square to itself.  I'm sure there is a way to get squareness but still.  I hope that translates well.  

Unless one is relying on a "shooting board" technique to make center joints (which I do not, nor do most of the better makers I know), what is going on with the sides of the plane really doesn't matter.

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2 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

Unless one is relying on a "shooting board" technique to make center joints (which I do not, nor do most of the better makers I know), what is going on with the sides of the plane really doesn't matter.

That did cross my mind after I typed, yes. 

I'll mention too for Tango that sometimes applying slightly more arm weight towards the back of the plane right before the end of the pass sometimes helps.

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Question: How tight is the screw and cap? Tightening the screw so that the cap is tighter will cause the sole to change shape. Perhaps not as much as your gap, but you might be surprised if it is not quite snug.

I know this because we had a machinist in SLC who would grind our planes for us and he had a jig that simulated the tension of the cap lever. Without it, he would have ground the sole flat, we would install the blade and clamp it down, and then there would be a hump in the sole.

 

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Hi all

That plane is a #5 Stanley. The gap is little but I would like to enhance that.

Meanwhile, I rescued a 66 cm old wooden plane I flattened some years ago but abandoned because  I felt easiest to use a modern one. The wedge and the subtle strokes to the iron confused me .

So now I sharpened the old blade and it worked better this time (may be I am the problem ? Who knows). I feel the weight help some.
For the moment I will learn to use this big wooden plane because I have to make a cello center joint.

Thanks all for coments

Regards

Tango

 

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I've never seen an old Stanley plane with a gap at the centre. The gap is always at each end, either through wear or distortion. Is your straight edge straight?

If it is as it looks, the sole of the plane will not make contact with the wood's surface when planing where the blade projects and it will not work properly. Major problem.

 

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53 minutes ago, tango said:

 more...

The space ahead in my big wooden plane iron is very large (8,5 mm aprox)
Is this a problem?

cepillo madera.jpg

Yep. You will need to fill that in and re-flatten the plane for fine shavings. You might be able to place a shim behind the blade, moving it forward, to close the gap.

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6 hours ago, duane88 said:

Yep. You will need to fill that in and re-flatten the plane for fine shavings. You might be able to place a shim behind the blade, moving it forward, to close the gap.

I had the same problem and I set a piece of wood into the sole to close the gap from the front.

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When I modified the wooden plane, which I use for general woodwork, I finished with the gap at 2 mm. My jointing plane is 0.8mm. If I were going to modify your wooden plane for centre joints I would start with no gap and then gradually increase it until it does what you want, using the iron as a reference to keep it all square.

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Hi Muswell

Thank you for tell me this measure. My big wooden plane was flattened by a serious carpenter some years ago, so the soil is ok. The only work now would be to fill the gap.

Thanks to all for replies

Regards

Tango

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16 hours ago, tango said:

Hi Muswell

Thank you for tell me this measure. My big wooden plane was flattened by a serious carpenter some years ago, so the soil is ok. The only work now would be to fill the gap.

Thanks to all for replies

Regards

Tango

Tango,

Cello joints do not require a longer plane than violin joints. I use my long plane sole up in  a vise for violin plates but for cellos I rough the joint straight with no twist then use a smaller plane to take a shaving from the middle another which goes from a quarter of the length to the other quarter and finally one the full length of the joint.

This gives a slightly catenaric hollow on each side of the joint which can be closed by finger tightness of a single clamp in the center.

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