Jump to content
Maestronet Forums

Most expensive eBay violin in current results - what is it?


Recommended Posts

Title says it all. What is this and how much is it "worth?"

67 bids, $21,500 selling price. Was this cut down at some point or are the f-holes just that close to the edge?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/154390478525

Alte Geige old Italian violin 18th century ...master sound, phenomenon sound!

Old Italian violin circa 1750
 
(Repair label: Repaired Mathias Heinicke 1909 ...)
 
 
Body:
 
35.1 cm
 
Back:
 
16 cm
10.8 cm
20.2 cm
 
The violin has no cracks on the top and none on the back. No vocal cracks no
repaired cracks. Rarely in good condition for the age.
 
There is a single, delicate, closed crack on the side right frame.
The head has repairs.
 
The sensation of this violin is its sound:
 
The violin sounds breathtakingly mature and full, dark, with excellent carrying capacity.
Italian, noble and self-confident in all situations. An enormously good concert instrument,
a violin full of charm, expression and convincing grace.
 
The sound of this violin cannot be described otherwise than ... fantastic.
 
Despite expert help, no builder could be identified. The violin is also inside
well and neatly built, with blocks and hoops. It is original in all parts. It is stored in a safe and can be tested in the Saarbrücken State Theater or the music academy by appointment.
 
Worldwide, insured shipping is possible if high insurance is offered to this country.
Shipped in a violin case.

2007a72aea1dc8ecf3936242347846492.jpg

49908df249841e8edd51e271890a6e980.jpg

2a052aaae19a37378407b9d18831ee709.jpg

4479b05f9c600d9216e61a8205b6a1b0c.jpg

5183938dfaebd388125772181d2b60168.jpg

1b173617f385bf3c3bcdf90f90ecab050.jpg

16b7e11c84f790be9a5e88614642818b8.jpg

4e44b46f70ad2a093a71910bea5f3d362.jpg

4f4a0339cfbcbbf2e14ef26735bf502b7.jpg

311ad98cc11cd0bbed89cae6ecca5a447.jpg

270909f2864faeb73da70714da05ecf32.jpg

2a97b46e216f04ad7f7a416d81c3b3e19.jpg

17438bfd5504d6869010bf06548c00d6e.jpg

3d12db58f31672e893afcfb19763c835b.jpg

571e167b11d853b7afad5117ed824d31f.jpg

16de038842137cec9faef4cb0b305a3c1.jpg

s-l1600-3.jpg

s-l1600-2.jpg

s-l1600-1.jpg

s-l1600.jpg

Screen Shot 2021-06-09 at 8.43.53 PM.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 72
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Sorry, ebay listings are intended for the Auction scroll, there is no allowance for authenticity issues, Maybe Jefferey will step in. If you've already bought the violin you could show it on the pegbox, but if you had bought this violin it appears you would be an absolute fool, and victim of some manner of criminal conspiracy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You have no authority here. I will quote the auction scroll description for your disappointment. It actually doesn’t fit the bill and by the language should not be included there. This is not an upcoming auction, or a current eBay listing. No instrument is listed for sale and I have no involvement in this auction. For contrast, see Brad’s accurate assessment and Blank Face’s helpful and highly educated response. 

The Auction Scroll

Scroll through this forum to discuss upcoming instrument auctions, both on and off line. A great place to discuss current Ebay instrument listings. BUT NOT TO LIST INSTRUMENTS FOR SALE"

503930360_ScreenShot2021-06-10at9_19_24AM.thumb.png.9eb253d8006908b8a5c5a0910e357278.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Brad Dorsey said:

I think that this topic is also appropriate here, since "This forum is for discussions relating to the 'hardware' side of string instruments, it should include issues relating to...authenticity,...instrument values, and so on."

Cheers. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

I was assuming it was a current listing, evidently it is a couple of months old, which may make a difference, I am not sure.

And while authenticity issues are listed for the Pegbox, there has never been any tradition of allowing links to  ebay listings in the Pegbox, as far as I can tell.

Be careful when you make assumptions and then take the unsolicited and unnecessary opportunity to correct people. Here you were wrong and your tradition of using this forum dates back for all of one year, nobody cares what you think about this. Jeffrey can move this on his own if that's what he deems appropriate.

You should however consider how useless your posts are to the topic at hand. False assumptions, poorly interpreted reading of the rules, lack of any substantive response to the questions, and a lazy accusation of fraud that you'd prefer someone else did something about rather than reporting the listing yourself. Just a huge swing and a miss on every point.

And furthermore, as a warning to you online and in life, I don't know where you sit, but in the USA, accusing someone of fraud is defamation per se unless you can back up your allegations with supportive facts in court. This type of statement could get you in legal trouble if the seller should want to pursue the matter.

Defamation Per Se and Untrue Statements

Traditionally, there have been four general categories of untrue statements presumed to be harmful to one's reputation and therefore actionable as an injury claim. Typically, if the statements don't fall into one of these categories, the plaintiff is required to prove their damages. If it does fall into one of these categories, damages are usually presumed.

The four general categories are:

  • Indications that a person was involved in criminal activity
  • Indications that a person had a "loathsome," contagious or infectious disease
  • Indications that a person was unchaste or engaged in sexual misconduct
  • Indications that a person was involved in behavior incompatible with the proper conduct of his business, trade or profession

 

447590749_ScreenShot2021-06-10at11_21_04AM.thumb.png.976228b5cbb2e66bd30375bd50b87b4b.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, BassClef said:

Be careful when you make assumptions and then take the unsolicited and unnecessary opportunity to correct people. Here you were wrong and your tradition of using this forum dates back for all of one year, nobody cares what you think about this. Jeffrey can move this on his own if that's what he deems appropriate.

You should however consider how useless your posts are to the topic at hand. False assumptions, poorly interpreted reading of the rules, lack of any substantive response to the questions, and a lazy accusation of fraud that you'd prefer someone else did something about rather than reporting the listing yourself. Just a huge swing and a miss on every point.

And furthermore, as a warning to you online and in life, I don't know where you sit, but in the USA, accusing someone of fraud is defamation per se unless you can back up your allegations with supportive facts in court. This type of statement could get you in legal trouble if the seller should want to pursue the matter.

Defamation Per Se and Untrue Statements

Traditionally, there have been four general categories of untrue statements presumed to be harmful to one's reputation and therefore actionable as an injury claim. Typically, if the statements don't fall into one of these categories, the plaintiff is required to prove their damages. If it does fall into one of these categories, damages are usually presumed.

The four general categories are:

  • Indications that a person was involved in criminal activity
  • Indications that a person had a "loathsome," contagious or infectious disease
  • Indications that a person was unchaste or engaged in sexual misconduct
  • Indications that a person was involved in behavior incompatible with the proper conduct of his business, trade or profession

 

447590749_ScreenShot2021-06-10at11_21_04AM.thumb.png.976228b5cbb2e66bd30375bd50b87b4b.png

Take a deep breath perhaps. If I were Jeffrey, I would shift this thread to the Auction scroll, which is what it is for. Selling (if it actually was) a misrepresented Klingenthaler violin for an outrageous price is evidently fraudulent behaviour, so talk of “defamation” is out of place.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Bidding started at $1.00. It was not a private auction. I don't know what it is or where it came from (hence the OP's original question), but who here is to say for certain that it isn't Italian without seeing it? It isn't some run-of-the-mill "Hopf." I have seen Amati's that have the typical squared-body shape of Klingenthal violins (this is not one), so being "Italian" or not is not always immediately obvious.

It apparently was available for inspection. One does not know if the ultimate buyer inspected it first. Maybe they did, and maybe they didn't. If there was no shill bidding or other shenanigans, then I don't see how a seller should be responsible for what people bid. If various people want to scream "but not Italian," without examining it, then that's their judgment. Others who have seen it personally might disagree.

But there was nothing wrong at all with Bass Clef asking the question "what is this?" No need for various people to be insulting.

Personally, I think it is an interesting violin and I appreciate Bass Clef posting it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Brad Dorsey said:

I think that this topic is also appropriate here, since "This forum is for discussions relating to the 'hardware' side of string instruments, it should include issues relating to...authenticity,...instrument values, and so on."

Brad is correct, but the reason the auction scroll was created was to allow discussions concerning public offerings (like this one... they are by nature pretty unique) a place to be discussed and leave the pegbox relatively free of them.

Not unusual to have some crossover within forums.  No foul, but I think this is the best place for this thread... especially so considering the title.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

Brad is correct, but the reason the auction scroll was created was to allow discussions concerning public offerings (like this one... they are by nature pretty unique) a place to be discussed and leave the pegbox relatively free of them.

Not unusual to have some crossover within forums.  No foul, but I think this is the best place for this thread... especially so considering the title.

All good! Have a nice afternoon Jeffrey!

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GeorgeH said:

Bidding started at $1.00. It was not a private auction. I don't know what it is or where it came from (hence the OP's original question), but who here is to say for certain that it isn't Italian without seeing it? It isn't some run-of-the-mill "Hopf." I have seen Amati's that have the typical squared-body shape of Klingenthal violins (this is not one), so being "Italian" or not is not always immediately obvious.

It apparently was available for inspection. One does not know if the ultimate buyer inspected it first. Maybe they did, and maybe they didn't. If there was no shill bidding or other shenanigans, then I don't see how a seller should be responsible for what people bid. If various people want to scream "but not Italian," without examining it, then that's their judgment. Others who have seen it personally might disagree.

But there was nothing wrong at all with Bass Clef asking the question "what is this?" No need for various people to be insulting.

Personally, I think it is an interesting violin and I appreciate Bass Clef posting it.

Cheers, I appreciate your post, it was substantive and interesting.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

Take a deep breath perhaps. If I were Jeffrey, I would shift this thread to the Auction scroll, which is what it is for. Selling (if it actually was) a misrepresented Klingenthaler violin for an outrageous price is evidently fraudulent behaviour, so talk of “defamation” is out of place.

Cheers Jacob! What would a violin like this retail for in your neck of the woods?

1150009923_ScreenShot2021-06-10at2_34_25PM.thumb.png.8465d4548dae250e223e397c16493685.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...



×
×
  • Create New...