Post-Brexit importing from UK into Europe for certification

[Violinjon]

Hello, asking this on behalf of a friend-

How easy now is it to import a instrument/bow into the EU from the UK for certification? In this specific circumstance, a violin bow, would be sent from the UK to Paris and upon certification shipped out of the EU (not to the UK, either).

Just looking online it seems that temporary import should be possible, but how does it work in practice?

Appreciate your responses.

 

[duane88]

France - Temporary Entry (trade.gov)

[Violinjon]

30 minutes ago, duane88 said:

France - Temporary Entry (trade.gov)

Perhaps I should have been more clear.

I've already read as much as I could on the official websites. The link you sent only discusses ATA carnets, which are not really what I'd want, as it would cost as much as the bow certificate. 

What you would need to do is to apply for "temporary admission." Does anyone here have personal experience, and more to the point, know anyone (like a bow technician or dealer) in the UK that can assist with the shipping after getting repaired? The temporary admission process seems to be geared for companies importing goods, but obviously my friend is acting as a private individual.

[duane88]

"Temporary Admission" is what a Carnae is for. You get the funds, mostly, back once you show that the item has been exported and not sold. Yes, it is a pain. I learned about these through a daughter of an apprentice. She worked for a very, very high-end art dealer. We sent a viola to France for a competition, had to get a Carnae. Without it you can lose control of the item for a potentially long period of time. When the instrument came back, the funds were given back, less fees associated with the paperwork.

Of course, you could just carry it through personally and take the risk. It is done every day.

[Jeffrey Holmes]

I used Carnets regularly in the '90s to accomplish temporary import to Canada, European countries, Korea and Japan. Initial costs varied depending on the bond required for entry into the specific country. I assume that remains similar.

Execution of the document is relatively simple once you understand the requirements.

Many countries have, or had, alternate methods for temporary importation (for trade shows, etc), but they usually ended up being more complicated than a carnet, in my experience. I left that work to a broker when required.

Watch the ivory, whalebone and tortoise (if any exists) on the bow... especially if it was made less than 100 years ago.

 

[match]

You could just ask the French expert, he certainly knows his way round. The handling of the post Brexit rules seem to differ in the individual EU countries. In my experience sending from the EU to GB is easy and smooth with the appropriate forms. I heard from France that it also works well from GB to France. On the other hand our snored German customs authorities seem to be staging a fucking Prussian comedy from the 19. century. 

 

[PhilipKT]

What a mess.

[martin swan]

12 hours ago, match said:

On the other hand our snored German customs authorities seem to be staging a fucking Prussian comedy from the 19. century. 

 

Indeed ....

We recently sent a cello bow to Germany on trial. We paid the import VAT on behalf of the prospective buyer .

He didn't like it, and at the point where he sent it back to the UK as a returned item, German customs decided they should open the package (on the grounds that both the import and export commercial invoices attached to the package were "missing"). They couldn't find images of the bow on our website, claimed not to be able to verify the information on the "missing" commercial invoice, and therefore sent it back to the person who was trying to return it.

It might have made sense to check it on arrival in Germany, but to refuse to allow it to be returned at the same customs value is surreal ...

Germany is also unique in that it seems to arbitrarily exclude musical instruments from its definition of "antiques". So even if a violin is over 100 years old one must often pay the full import VAT.

So far Brexit is an unadulterated shit-storm, to the point where even its principal advocates are complaining or denying.

Like everyone else involved in international trade, the only option for us is to register for VAT in the EU and for our taxes to be paid there rather than to the UK Exchequer. Great result!

[Violinjon]

Thanks for your responses. The consensus seems to be, as I had imagined, that the process is a complete disaster.

After sending an email to the French certifier I got the impression that they did not want to get involved with customs whatsoever. In my friend's case, paying the estimated import VAT for an antique is not much different from the fees associated with getting an ATA carnet, and also doesn't need the cooperation of the receiver, so he'll just save time and pay tax to France. 

[jacobsaunders]

It can get complicated enough within the EU, never mind brexit US-Bürger wollten wertvolle Instrumente über Tarvis nach Österreich schmuggeln | kurier.at

[PhilipKT]

I live in the good old-and very large-United States, but just for my own information:

1) if I am going to Europe with two cello bows and a cello, my own instruments, because I want to play a recital at Jacobs store or something like that, for free, not for money, just for free, and maybe some beer, do I have to go through all this BS to take my rosewood pegged cello and my ivory-tipped bows from place to place?

also

2) If I have my cello and my bows at Jacobs shop and I find a splendid stick in his dustbin And we work out a trade, am I going to have a huge mess getting my new stick back to the United States?

Edited June 12, 2021 by PhilipKT
Typo

[jacobsaunders]

13 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

I live in the good old-and very large-United States, but just for my own information:

1) if I am going to Europe with two cello bows and a cello, my own instruments, because I want to play a recital at Jacobs store or something like that, for free, not for money, just for free, and maybe some beer, do I have to go through all this BS to take my rosewood pegged cello and my ivory-tipped bows from place to place?

also

2) If I have my cello and my bows at Jacobs shop and I find a splendid stick in his dustbin And we work out a trade, am I going to have a huge mess getting my new stick back to the United States?

They would probably put you in prison for a fortnight first, for coming from a Covid infested country

[PhilipKT]

4 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

They would probably put you in prison for a fortnight first, for coming from a Covid infested country

If you bring me beer, that might be ok

[Rue]

...wonders what else Philip would risk...for a frankfurter and sauerkraut...

[uguntde]

On 6/12/2021 at 12:44 AM, martin swan said:

Indeed ....

We recently sent a cello bow to Germany on trial. We paid the import VAT on behalf of the prospective buyer .

He didn't like it, and at the point where he sent it back to the UK as a returned item, German customs decided they should open the package (on the grounds that both the import and export commercial invoices attached to the package were "missing"). They couldn't find images of the bow on our website, claimed not to be able to verify the information on the "missing" commercial invoice, and therefore sent it back to the person who was trying to return it.

It might have made sense to check it on arrival in Germany, but to refuse to allow it to be returned at the same customs value is surreal ...

Germany is also unique in that it seems to arbitrarily exclude musical instruments from its definition of "antiques". So even if a violin is over 100 years old one must often pay the full import VAT.

So far Brexit is an unadulterated shit-storm, to the point where even its principal advocates are complaining or denying.

Like everyone else involved in international trade, the only option for us is to register for VAT in the EU and for our taxes to be paid there rather than to the UK Exchequer. Great result!

I recently wanted to import something from the UK into Germany and gave up after seeing the regulations. In a sense I am glad that BJ doesn’t get away with this. in most other areas he does.