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I was considering this one...


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6 minutes ago, fragslap said:

I don't get it. It says it sold for 16,000, 18,800 with premium. However, they SAY the premium is 20% which would be $3,200, so the WITH premium price SHOULD be $19,200. Did I miss something?

Tarisio and Bromptons offer 2% buyers premium discount to people who bid first on an item and then go on to win it.

I have done this myself twice with Bromptons, it's quite handy to save a little bit.

This would explain the lower final price.

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59 minutes ago, fragslap said:

I don't get it. It says it sold for 16,000, 18,800 with premium. However, they SAY the premium is 20% which would be $3,200, so the WITH premium price SHOULD be $19,200. Did I miss something?

If they didn’t charge you enough, it might be a good idea to keep quiet:)

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11 hours ago, fragslap said:

I don't get it. It says it sold for 16,000, 18,800 with premium. However, they SAY the premium is 20% which would be $3,200, so the WITH premium price SHOULD be $19,200. Did I miss something?

Prices are in British pounds so the final price is about S26/27K US

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I have a friend whose regular gigging instrument is an 1894 Romeo Antoniazzi violin. It is truly a glorious sounding instrument. It is also one of those instruments that for some reason is effortless to play.

Didn’t a Romeo Antoniazzi cello sell recently for a hefty sum?

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I have doubts about the Antoniazzi at Bromptons, and that is said lightly. I did not see it in person but there's a reason it did not sell...

 

on a side note, perhaps someone could shed some light on lot 158 at Tarisio, looks like a lovely violin, yet did not sell. Perhaps too expensive in combination with the small size? (personally I like 53.1cm)

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9 hours ago, chrissweden said:

I have doubts about the Antoniazzi at Bromptons, and that is said lightly. I did not see it in person but there's a reason it did not sell...

 

on a side note, perhaps someone could shed some light on lot 158 at Tarisio, looks like a lovely violin, yet did not sell. Perhaps too expensive in combination with the small size? (personally I like 53.1cm)

I pressume you are doubting it's authenticity?

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Now I'm confused. The OP's post referenced the Antoniazzi school 'Parravicini' at Tarisio that chrissweden subsequently suggested might not be authentic while being aware of an instrument (Parravicini?) available with certification. I am curious who is responsible for that cert.

Later chrissweden suggests that the Romeo Antoniazzi at Brompton's with accompanying Bisiach certification is also not authentic?

One would think that a Bisiach cert would be sufficient regarding authenticity as Antoniazzi had earlier in his career worked for that precise firm. IMHO if anyone could reliably authenticate Antoniazzi, it would be Bisiach.

Personally I would be very reluctant to dispute their authority as regards any Antoniazzi instruments. Unless he is suggesting that the cert does not belong to the violin. Based on what evidence?

I too am curious as to how chrissweden reached his conclusions.

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OK there are two violins being discussed - always a recipe for disaster.

The Tarisio violin is an authentic Monzino instrument. Tarisio thought it might be a Parravicini (Antoniazzi's successor) but it's a bit unusual and probably by someone else in that circle. It isn't certified. It was a fantastic sounding instrument and I came very close to buying it - also beautifully made and with some unique wood. Whoever bought it paid a fair price, and if they take it to Eric Blot they might get a name ...

The Bromptons instrument has a Giacomo & Leandro Bisiach certificate as an Antoniazzi. Personally I like the violin and I don't see any reason to doubt it, but for anyone well versed in "Bisiach lore" (and I'm sure Christian is) this particular certificate always rings alarm bells. Charles Beare recounts visiting the Bisiachs around this time. They were important dealers and the front shop was full of very honourable things. The back shop, however, was given over to the practice of making "authentic" instruments out of bits ... or just making fakes. By this time the trade in modern Italians was well established in the USA, and buyers were naive.

We have had a couple of these - one was a lovely composite violin with an authentic Gaetano Antoniazzi back, the rest made by G&L Bisiach, but certified by them as 100% Gaetano Antoniazzi. The other was a fake Guadagnini probably made out of a Messori.

So, almost de facto one would look askance at any modern Italian with a G&L Bisiach certificate - they were wide boys of the first order.

The flip side of this is that the Antoniazzis were talented workers who made many instruments not in their own style. This particular violin seems very much a product of the Leandro Bisiach workshop - its label indicates that it was made by Romeo Antoniazzi "for" the Bisiach firm, so I think you'd have to do a close analysis of toolmarks etc. to have a proper opinion.

The estimate seemed very fair to me - it also sounded a hell of a lot better in the flesh than the sound sample indicated. Another really nice violin ... I'm sure it would have sold if more people had been able to get to try it, but these are strange times.

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On 6/10/2021 at 2:45 PM, martin swan said:

OK.........these are strange times.

Thanks much, Martin, for the excellent explanation.  Rumor has it that stuff like that is still going on, and not just in Italy.   :)

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