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Bow Id with mistery


jandepora
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This is far from straightforward because the adjuster doesn't belong and the ferrule looks like it has been replaced.

The stick looks French but I can't see if it's actually octagonal or round - if it's round then the transition is super-long and it would have to be some kind of trade bow. 

If the stick is round and the frog belongs, the "V" assembly mark would still suggest something slightly mass produced. Some Peccatte school bows have assembly marks but they would have screws in the underslide. Interesting slightly convex outer ring to the Parisian eye which I've seen on some Victor Fétiques ... but the head doesn't look like Fétique

The head looks very nice though it's slightly hard to see the chamfers. Can you get better photos?

For the moment I would say Louis Bazin, but could also be some kind of Laberte.

 

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1 hour ago, jandepora said:

The bow comes with a stamped name but I will reveal it later to not contaminate the answers.

Since a brand is an integral part of the bow's identity, whether or not it is authentic, leaving it out of the picture isn't helpful at all. It doesn't "contaminate the answers;" it only makes the answers more informed.

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18 minutes ago, martin swan said:

The head looks very nice though it's slightly hard to see the chamfers. Can you get better photos?

 

Hope this new pictures could help. Thank you

chamf01.thumb.jpg.a2bd3dda24535066f18609b6021c2550.jpgchamf02.thumb.jpg.a47e50a26a9eec260c80f059b73a0417.jpgchamf03.thumb.jpg.d6980c67d2977b9f498461d5e8a841aa.jpgchamf04.thumb.jpg.fb2ccd1e1484ff5cd77e5e5c867b2b26.jpgchamf05.thumb.jpg.aa58f17a41aa847bf34b98737f1f32d6.jpg

18 minutes ago, martin swan said:

The stick looks French but I can't see if it's actually octagonal or round - if it's round then the transition is super-long and it would have to be some kind of trade bow. 

Is round. Maybe the lapping too short?

trasition.thumb.jpg.a025267d301207b54343822b02eb5778.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Greg F. said:

Strange "gouge" on one side of the head. 

Looks like it hit a music stand!

I wonder about the chamfers on the head. To me, they look concave instead of flat. Is that real or a photographic illusion?

2021-06-05_15-58-14.jpg

2021-06-05_15-58-41.jpg

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10 minutes ago, Greg F. said:

Strange "gouge" on one side of the head.  I'm just a neophyte, but doesn't the wide mortice suggest (not prove) German?  Wood looks nice.

The marks in the head side are, I think, from the bow holder in the case it comes. The mark in the top of the head looks like the marks caused for the hit with the bow in the music stand to make the "applausse" of the orchestra members.

3 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:

I wonder about the chamfers on the head. To me, they look concave instead of flat. Is that real or a photographic illusion?

are a photographic illusion.

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17 minutes ago, Greg F. said:

but doesn't the wide mortice suggest (not prove) German?

Flipping through L' Archet shows that many French makers also used wide mortices. 

5 minutes ago, jandepora said:

are a photographic illusion.

Would have been cool if real! :)

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41 minutes ago, Greg F. said:

Strange "gouge" on one side of the head.  I'm just a neophyte, but doesn't the wide mortice suggest (not prove) German?  Wood looks nice.

I would have said the opposite. German mortices tend to sit within the confines of the bottom facet.

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8 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

Since a brand is an integral part of the bow's identity, whether or not it is authentic, leaving it out of the picture isn't helpful at all. It doesn't "contaminate the answers;" it only makes the answers more informed.

I'm also unsure why you would not reveal the brand. If you want to know who made your bow it's a crucial bit of the picture.

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8 minutes ago, martin swan said:

I'm also unsure why you would not reveal the brand. If you want to know who made your bow it's a crucial bit of the picture.

Sorry, here you have. The bow brand is PARRAMON - BARCELONA.

My though was that the bow is not made by him and that it could be made in other place and bought by him and rebranded.

If someone know more about who was the maker of the Parramon bows.... I think it could was bought from 1940/50

Clipboard000.thumb.jpg.9c38b058d91bf7797772c2eb24bcad6b.jpg

 

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2 hours ago, jandepora said:

Sorry, here you have. The bow brand is PARRAMON - BARCELONA.

My though was that the bow is not made by him and that it could be made in other place and bought by him and rebranded.

If someone know more about who was the maker of the Parramon bows.... I think it could was bought from 1940/50

Clipboard000.thumb.jpg.9c38b058d91bf7797772c2eb24bcad6b.jpg

 

I'm sure Parramon bought from various Mirecourt makers, but Louis Bazin makes sense in this context.

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@martin swan

Martin, for the unlettered among us, could you please go into a little bit of detail about the transition you spoke of from octagonal to round? Every bow of course is octagonal at the frog, but not throughout the stick, And you spoke of the transition being super-long.

I’m sure you mean where the octagonal stick becomes round which I always assumed would happen underneath the lapping somewhere.

Could you go into a little bit of detail on this?

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52 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

@martin swan

Martin, for the unlettered among us, could you please go into a little bit of detail about the transition you spoke of from octagonal to round? Every bow of course is octagonal at the frog, but not throughout the stick, And you spoke of the transition being super-long.

I’m sure you mean where the octagonal stick becomes round which I always assumed would happen underneath the lapping somewhere.

Could you go into a little bit of detail on this?

I believe that octagonal-facet extending beyond the lapping can be taken as sign of French origin. 

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28 minutes ago, shunkpenn said:

I believe that octagonal-facet extending beyond the lapping can be taken as sign of French origin. 

Martin said that a long transition indicated a trade bow, but I’m unclear as to how long is long, and what a short transition is and what IT indicates. And how long does the change take? At what point is a bow completely octagonal? Or is that question even meaningful?

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I have two German trade bows, one stamped Willy Roth, the other HOMA.  FWIW, one is completely round at the downstream end of the lapping,  l3.5 cm from the nipple;  the other is still faintly octagonal at the balance point, about 24 cm down.  I wouldn't have thought this detail tells us anything important about either origin or quality.  Or does it?

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12 minutes ago, J-G said:

I have two German trade bows, one stamped Willy Roth, the other HOMA.  FWIW, one is completely round at the downstream end of the lapping,  l3.5 cm from the nipple;  the other is still faintly octagonal at the balance point, about 24 cm down.  I wouldn't have thought this detail tells us anything important about either origin or quality.  Or does it?

The very exaggerated transition of the second is a feature of some German trade bows. The first is a feature of most German bows ...

 

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It's very rare to see a L Bazin with parisian eye! I have my doubts about the head. The lowerback of the head should be swept further and generally the head is longer.

The heelplate does not have a mitre, instead it's one piece. Furthermore, the heelplate's pin in not centered which is a very important feature of one particular maker: Morizot pere.

The parisian eye not being centered and slightly lower placed in the frog could indicate Mirecourt or the Morizot brothers. The head does not look like Morizot brother though and on a drunk day their father might have made it...

It's difficult to say a particular maker from photo's. If you can, check if the width of the frog gets wide towards the stick (use a caliper) If it does, you have a Morizot on your hands. (or a German bow!)

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41 minutes ago, chrissweden said:

It's difficult to say a particular maker from photo's. If you can, check if the width of the frog gets wide towards the stick (use a caliper) If it does, you have a Morizot on your hands. (or a German bow!)

I have measured from the ferrule to the button, in the bottom of the frog, and it seems that the fluctuation is minor, from 13,3 to 13,5.

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1 hour ago, chrissweden said:

It's very rare to see a L Bazin with parisian eye! I have my doubts about the head. The lowerback of the head should be swept further and generally the head is longer.

The heelplate does not have a mitre, instead it's one piece. Furthermore, the heelplate's pin in not centered which is a very important feature of one particular maker: Morizot pere.

The parisian eye not being centered and slightly lower placed in the frog could indicate Mirecourt or the Morizot brothers. The head does not look like Morizot brother though and on a drunk day their father might have made it...

It's difficult to say a particular maker from photo's. If you can, check if the width of the frog gets wide towards the stick (use a caliper) If it does, you have a Morizot on your hands. (or a German bow!)

Agree with all of the above but if the frog belongs then the throat is very characteristic and for me not open enough for any kind of Morizot.

so ultimately I would just say Mirecourt trade, possibly Laberte.

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