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Fingerboard Scoop Template


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Before starting my next violin I've decided to do some toolmaking - I'll be posting a few designs over the next several weeks.

I've always had some trouble ensuring that when I plane a fingerboard the scoop is evenly distributed from end-to-end. So I designed this template and had it laser cut. One side projects 0.75mm over 270mm and the other projects 0.5mm over 270mm, which are the numbers given by Michael Darnton in his setup chapter. The top and bottom have a 42mm radius outside and inside curve for marking bridges and planing the fingerboard, respectively.

Having this laser cut was not much cheaper for one than for 20 since I had to use a whole sheet anyway. So I decided to use the full sheet and offer the others for sale: https://www.ebay.com/itm/255001481013

The price (14.99) is not much above cost for me, but I'd like to give a discount for maestronet members. When you go to buy just make an offer of 12.99 and include "maestronet" in your offer note and I'll accept it. I'll also be listing a laser cut version of C&J's neck shaping template soon (the laser cutter somehow cut it to the wrong size so I'm having it redone) - if you'd like that too you might want to wait to buy to combine shipping.

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@JPherson@Jim Bress I would definitely be up for designing / coordinating a buy for cello templates. I think I might try to do more of a preorder for that as I have a feeling it will end up being more expensive (more material) and I'd rather not outlay for a bunch that won't sell. So to start I'll design the template and get some quotes for different amounts depending on how many folks want one.

Do either of you have the correct dimensions for a cello? What I need is the length of the fingerboard, the width of the bridge at it's widest, the radius of the bridge/fingerboard curvature, the depth of the scoop at the midpoint of the bass side, and the depth of the scoop at the midpoint of the treble side.

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11 hours ago, m.makepeace said:

@JPherson@Jim Bress I would definitely be up for designing / coordinating a buy for cello templates. I think I might try to do more of a preorder for that as I have a feeling it will end up being more expensive (more material) and I'd rather not outlay for a bunch that won't sell. So to start I'll design the template and get some quotes for different amounts depending on how many folks want one.

Do either of you have the correct dimensions for a cello? What I need is the length of the fingerboard, the width of the bridge at it's widest, the radius of the bridge/fingerboard curvature, the depth of the scoop at the midpoint of the bass side, and the depth of the scoop at the midpoint of the treble side.

Dimensions can vary more with celli than violins. Also, the deepest part of the scoop is at the end of the neck root which is slightly off from center. I'm an amature, and Jesse is a trained maker, so I will defer to @JPherson if he disagrees with any of the following measurements.

    Length of fingerboard = 580 mm

**Fingerboard width at bridge end = 64 mm 

**Radius of Fingerboard = 62 mm (Concave for playing surface, and convex for underside scoop)

    Depth of scoop at *295 mm from nut end: **A = 0.8 mm; C = 1.0 mm 

 *295 mm neck length based on the Weishar restoration manual cello neck template

**From Peter Goodfellow's article

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Thanks @Jim Bress! I'm ashamed to admit that I had no idea about the Romberg bevel until @duane88 just mentioned it - I had assumed cello boards were shaped like big violin boards. I wonder if it might make sense to make the template skinnier and just include the two scoop profiles without the radii on the top/bottom? That way it would save material and avoid the issue of differing ways to shape the cross section.

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10 hours ago, Jim Bress said:

Dimensions can vary more with celli than violins. Also, the deepest part of the scoop is at the end of the neck root which is slightly off from center. I'm an amature, and Jesse is a trained maker, so I will defer to @JPherson if he disagrees with any of the following measurements.

    Length of fingerboard = 580 mm

**Fingerboard width at bridge end = 64 mm 

**Radius of Fingerboard = 62 mm (Concave for playing surface, and convex for underside scoop)

    Depth of scoop at *295 mm from nut end: **A = 0.8 mm; C = 1.0 mm 

 *295 mm neck length based on the Weishar restoration manual cello neck template

**From Peter Goodfellow's article

Looks good to me. But I’ll double check in a few. Personally, as a player, I hate the Romberg shaped boards. Though some still seem to prefer it. 
Jesse

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1 hour ago, JPherson said:

Looks good to me. But I’ll double check in a few. Personally, as a player, I hate the Romberg shaped boards. Though some still seem to prefer it. 
Jesse

Agreed, I’m not interested in a template that incorporates the Romberg flat. Plus I already have one as part of a herdim set. 

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@Jim Bress@JPherson here is one design for a cello template. This is just over an inch wide so the top and bottom aren't usable arches like on my violin template - this obviates the romberg vs non-romberg discussion. The 1mm/0.8mm markings are aligned exactly with the deepest part of the scoop at 295mm from the nut end of the template. This would be about $25+shipping (each) if we find 5 takers, and closer to $20 if there are 10 folks interested.

cello-template-preview.thumb.png.1ee187bb100992570c3344f6a8d3165a.png

 

Here is the second option, which has the 64mm wide, radius 62mm curves at either end. This is a bit more - around $30+shipping if we get 5 and closer to $25 if there are 10 folks interested.

cello-preview-2.thumb.png.2265b8cd5c3ad5140e6ea328eb63ef65.png

 

Let me know what you think! I know at least one of you has a violin template coming so maybe wait and see how you like that before deciding whether to move forward with this.

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32 minutes ago, m.makepeace said:

@Jim Bress@JPherson here is one design for a cello template. This is just over an inch wide so the top and bottom aren't usable arches like on my violin template - this obviates the romberg vs non-romberg discussion. The 1mm/0.8mm markings are aligned exactly with the deepest part of the scoop at 295mm from the nut end of the template. This would be about $25+shipping (each) if we find 5 takers, and closer to $20 if there are 10 folks interested.

cello-template-preview.thumb.png.1ee187bb100992570c3344f6a8d3165a.png

 

Here is the second option, which has the 64mm wide, radius 62mm curves at either end. This is a bit more - around $30+shipping if we get 5 and closer to $25 if there are 10 folks interested.

cello-preview-2.thumb.png.2265b8cd5c3ad5140e6ea328eb63ef65.png

 

Let me know what you think! I know at least one of you has a violin template coming so maybe wait and see how you like that before deciding whether to move forward with this.

Option 2 is more what I had in mind. The length seems long in the drawing, but maybe the additional 8.9 mm is to the end of the convex side? I'm looking forward to getting my hands on the violin neck template. I've never used a template for the fingerboard lengthwise hollow before. Just a straightedge and a small rule.

Thanks,

Jim

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1 minute ago, Jim Bress said:

Option 2 is more what I had in mind. The length seems long in the drawing, but maybe the additional 8.9 mm is to the end of the convex side? I'm looking forward to getting my hands on the violin neck template. I've never used a template for the fingerboard lengthwise hollow before. Just a straightedge and a small rule.

Thanks,

Jim

Yup the dimensions are for the overall template so the additional length is for the convex part sticking out

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40 minutes ago, m.makepeace said:

@Jim Bress@JPherson here is one design for a cello template. This is just over an inch wide so the top and bottom aren't usable arches like on my violin template - this obviates the romberg vs non-romberg discussion. The 1mm/0.8mm markings are aligned exactly with the deepest part of the scoop at 295mm from the nut end of the template. This would be about $25+shipping (each) if we find 5 takers, and closer to $20 if there are 10 folks interested.

cello-template-preview.thumb.png.1ee187bb100992570c3344f6a8d3165a.png

 

Here is the second option, which has the 64mm wide, radius 62mm curves at either end. This is a bit more - around $30+shipping if we get 5 and closer to $25 if there are 10 folks interested.

cello-preview-2.thumb.png.2265b8cd5c3ad5140e6ea328eb63ef65.png

 

Let me know what you think! I know at least one of you has a violin template coming so maybe wait and see how you like that before deciding whether to move forward with this.

Option 2 as well for me. I was thinking that it included the neck templates also. I miss read it lol. Please make a cello version of that as well. 
 

Jesse 

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I'm probably going to wait and see how the interest pans out on the ones I've designed so far before adding more to the list. I'd be happy to place an order for version 2 of that cello scoop template if there are 5 folks interested - I count two so far.

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7 minutes ago, m.makepeace said:

I'm probably going to wait and see how the interest pans out on the ones I've designed so far before adding more to the list. I'd be happy to place an order for version 2 of that cello scoop template if there are 5 folks interested - I count two so far.

When you load up a sheet for laser cutting are you limited to one pattern, or can you distribute multiple patterns throughout the sheet? Just trying to think of ways of increasing the utility/template types to fewer buyers if the interest is limited.

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The place I ordered from does give some discount for ordering multiple patterns at once in addition to ordering multiple copies of a single pattern. They handle the arranging on sheets themself and just give me a quote though, so I'm not sure exactly how it all works.

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On 6/2/2021 at 2:09 PM, duane88 said:

But with the advent of non-Romberg cello fingerboards, and many with the Romberg still there,2 templates would be needed, just to complicate things...

Yup...  :) and just to complicate things further... I think I mentioned several years ago that cellists I've worked with seem much more comfortable with a compound curve (parabolic type curve, for lack of a better term from a non mathematician), favoring the G, than they do with a straight radius. I made my own template after some trial and error and the kind assistance of cellist friends and clients. I have no idea if the commercial templates are straight radius or slightly parabolic.

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18 minutes ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

Yup...  :) and just to complicate things further... I think I mentioned several years ago that cellists I've worked with seem much more comfortable with a compound curve (parabolic type curve, for lack of a better term from a non mathematician), favoring the G, than they do with a straight radius. I made my own template after some trial and error and the kind assistance of cellist friends and clients. I have no idea if the commercial templates are straight radius or slightly parabolic.

Creating a template like that seems beyond my level of experience unless someone was willing to share. ;) I'd happily pay for the template of your choice plus delivery cost, and a beer at the next live VSA. Has 2021 been decided yet if it will be live or virtual?

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Thanks @NickIsWorking - I've got a couple all packaged up that will be dropped off at the post office first thing monday morning. Sounds like there is some interest in a cello version we just need to be sure the shape is something all are happy with - I'm open to any and all suggestions for how to change the radius/profile of those top and bottom curves

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I received the violin fingerboard template today. no need for pictures because it looks identical to the one in the first post. As warned in an email, there was some very fine roughness from the laser. A couple of full length swipes with a piece of 400 grit sandpaper that was within reach removed the nibs. I then measured the diameters and the convexity of each side. All four sides were accurate within my ability to measure, and the two long sides are 270 mm in length. Everything as advertised.

My only theoretical complaint is that I think the highest point in the convex shape is in the center (135 mm) instead of at the neck root (136 - 137 mm from the nut end). I say theoretical complaint because I wasn't able to measure the difference in the swell at 135 mm and +/- 2 mm. So no actual complaint. I'm very satisfied with the template.

The only negative is that it is now obvious that the distribution of the concavity on the last fingerboard I made is no longer to my satisfaction. :rolleyes:

Thanks Mike!

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