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Mislabelling: Is the industry complicit?


Rue
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1 minute ago, Andres Sender said:

This thread confuses multiple issues into a big mishmash.

I suggest Rue narrow the specifics.  Are we talking about all instances of labels that do not reflect the maker of an instrument?  If not, which subset are we talking about?  If any of the latter, recognize that labeling is a completely separate issue from seller representations as to who made an instrument.  Which issue do you want to discuss?

If you want to talk about seller dishonesty, be sure to notice that similar misrepresentations occur in any field in which it is possible.  Then we can get down to addressing this widespread fact of life.  We will have to discuss laws, law enforcement, law enforcement budgets, lawsuits (yes you got there quickly, well done) and the accessibility of expertise.

 

Agreed.

I think an interesting question could be, "Should dealers who encounter fake labels add explanatory labels of their own?"

On the question of honesty and dealers, my experience has been rather good and, heck, I bought my main viola from Machold. I wouldn't say that luthiers have a worse reputation than any other business where sales is a key component.

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4 hours ago, Rue said:

Consumers can/will still get bargains, consumers are good at ferreting out deals.  That's the joy of the hunt.

It wouldn't take long for consumers to get used to a 'new normal' in the violin market. 

The only unhappy group would be the 'crooks' (is there a more polite word I should be using?).

Networking is important!

This is the root problem.  The only way to reliably get that treasure hunt buzz is to prefer self-delusion over clear eyed truth.

For the average buyer to go to competent and honest dealer believing they will see what the dealer missed is delusion.

To go to the rumage sale believing they will spot the treasure amidst the trash is again delusion.

To go to a scammer unscrupulous buy (ebay?) believing the shark won't bite them is again delusion.

 

But, if they find an honest dealer who pulls away the delusions and offers an honest and transparent deal, they won't be happy.  Many will walk away a seek out a pleasing delusion.

 

That is the problem.  It real isn't about the dealers, honest or otherwise.

 

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I thought I did make it relatively clear.

Look at all the ID requests on MN.

Invariably the purchaser has been told that the instrument they are interested in is French, Italian or a 'better' German...

And MN invariably tells them it's an overpriced, mislabelled 'Waldie' and they should continue shopping. ^_^

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4 minutes ago, Rue said:

I thought I did make it relatively clear.

Look at all the ID requests on MN.

Invariably the purchaser has been told that the instrument they are interested in is French, Italian or a 'better' German...

And MN invariably tells them it's an overpriced, mislabelled 'Waldie' and they should continue shopping. ^_^

I get the impression from almost every single purchaser that they are not buying these instruments from violin shops.

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56 minutes ago, Rue said:

I thought I did make it relatively clear.

Look at all the ID requests on MN.

Invariably the purchaser has been told that the instrument they are interested in is French, Italian or a 'better' German...

And MN invariably tells them it's an overpriced, mislabelled 'Waldie' and they should continue shopping. ^_^

Self-selected for doubt.  Therefore not even remotely representative. 

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53 minutes ago, Rue said:

Well...he might be useful. However, I don't have any stakes in this, and you guys don't seem to see a problem. ^_^

Not so. I acknowledge that there are problems. However, my personal choice is to make instruments, and try to provide a viable alternative, rather than focusing on activism. I don't think I have enough time to do both well. How about you?

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1 hour ago, Rue said:

 

Invariably the purchaser has been told that the instrument they are interested in is French, Italian or a 'better' German...

 

I don't think this is the case. Mostly these are speculative purchases from sources who don't provide any kind of guarantee - generally the price paid is what this instrument is worth, as opposed to what the buyer hoped it was worth ...

 

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