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Roth Violin VII-R circa 1930?


LilHobbit
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Many commented on another violin I was looking at, a supposed Paul Mangenot.  Seems it was kind of suspicious as to maker/ quality and so I went to another local shop to check out some other instruments.  I came across this Roth violin, circa 1930.  It has the Ernst Heinrich Roth stamped into the bottom with the Serial Number D478 and it appears the label was removed at one point. Where the label should be, I can see pencil marks that state VII-R.  I have little doubt that this is a genuine EH Roth violin and it has a beautiful, crisp, clean sound to it.  It’s also a gorgeous looking violin.  

I would love some opinions on this violin regarding its’ age, ability to hold its’ value over time, quality, etc.  I have searched on the forums here and have found several previous threads on EH Roth violins and it seems that this is one of the “rarer” and more desirable because of its’ grading and the year it’s was made (if it’s truly around 1930).  I have also sent an email over to the Roth firm to see if I can get a clarification on date.

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It looks like it may be revarnished, not sure though, you can contact EH Roth in Germany through there website and they will look up the seral number and tell you what year and model number it is, I  would assume it is pre WW2 because it says Markneukirchen not Bubenreuth, where they relocated to after ther war

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9 hours ago, chiaroscuro_violins said:

The Roths I've seen have had thick, glossy varnish.  But never this vividly colored.  

Not mine.  But mine looks like its been played.  The varnish on the OP violin looks like it left the factory in 1980 and has been played once.

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13 hours ago, LilHobbit said:

it seems that this is one of the “rarer” and more desirable because of its’ grading and the year it’s was made

1. If pre-1930, higher liklihood that old man Roth either made of had a hand in making it.

2. Grading?  The VII-R is 4th down from the top.  I have been told that the 1724 and 1725 Strad models are much more desirable.

3. If it sounds and plays great, who cares about any of this?

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12 minutes ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

 you need to get the Roth factory to trace the serial number, they could also confirm if it is revarnished from pictures

Are you sure?  Have you done this?

I have.  They will send you a picture of the catalogued model and it will look pretty much brand new.  The picture they sent me has an instrument with varnish that is vastly different from mine.  BTW-they also verified and certified mine free of charge.

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22 minutes ago, violinnewb said:

Do you have a copy of this?  If so, nice!

The Roths sent me one in color.  Is yours in color?

Oh no, this is a scan of my friend's copy :) this one has just a few color plates, most are black and white.  

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1 hour ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

But an $8000 Roth that has been revarnished is only worth about $4000, and the model number could have been penciled in by anyone, you need to get the Roth factory to trace the serial number, they could also confirm if it is revarnished from pictures

I did get confirmation that it is a Roth VII-R made in 1930 with Ernst Heinrich Roth I as the Luthier of the violin with original varnish.  

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42 minutes ago, palousian said:

Wood Butcher pointed out the seam issue, and I notice that the same spot in the bottom rib, as seen from the side, is pretty distorted (bending inward), as though someone really cranked those bolts on the chinrest.

Thanks for the heads up on it.  If i do end up purchasing it, I will definitely address those issues with the shop first.

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45 minutes ago, palousian said:

Wood Butcher pointed out the seam issue, and I notice that the same spot in the bottom rib, as seen from the side, is pretty distorted (bending inward), as though someone really cranked those bolts on the chinrest.

I found out, to my cost, that this means that the plates have shrunk and the ribs need to be trimmed and re-glued, which is wildly expensive and Not worth doing on a cheap cello.

I decided to do it anyway, because I’m kind of stupid like that, and my violin guy called me frantically one evening and pointed out that the cello was glued with white glue And taking off the top would probably ruin it. So he put it back together as best he could, and I’m going to hand it out to the first kid who comes to my door next Halloween...

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6 minutes ago, LilHobbit said:

I did get confirmation that it is a Roth VII-R made in 1930 with Ernst Heinrich Roth I as the Luthier of the violin with original varnish.  

Well done!, Keep this post for the next time somebody sneers at the varnish. Meanwhile the repair that I referred to in my previous comment is now worth while. You could definitely talk to the shop about doing it, and they will frown, but I’m sure you guys can work something out. Congratulations.Well done!,

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8 minutes ago, LilHobbit said:

I did get confirmation that it is a Roth VII-R made in 1930 with Ernst Heinrich Roth I as the Luthier of the violin with original varnish.  

Confirmation from who?

Anyways, if the varnish is original, then this is the most pristine Roth I have personally seen.  Congrats!

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10 minutes ago, violinnewb said:

Confirmation from who?

Anyways, if the varnish is original, then this is the most pristine Roth I have personally seen.  Congrats!

Sorry, should have clarified.  That confirmation came directly from the Roth firm.

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6 minutes ago, LilHobbit said:

Sorry, should have clarified.  That confirmation came directly from the Roth firm.

SO how do they know its original varnish? From the pictures?  I am not a luthier so I am asking for knowledge, not to second guess.

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