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"New" Giuseppe Guarneri discovered via dedrochronology


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This snippet from the article was interesting..................

"many violinmakers, collectors and restorers collected original labels. The original was removed from the instrument and a replica label was inserted in its place."

So what would be worth more ?

A violin without its label which has been Identified as a Guarneri  ? (like the OP) -  or just an absolutely genuine Guarneri label  on its own made from paper ?

Where would the bidding start on a genuine Guarneri Del Gesu  paper label ?

 

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31 minutes ago, Televet said:

@sospiri is still incompetent then?:D

Which part of " the link does not work for me" do you not understand?

 

1 hour ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

Peter Ratcliff has spent decades collecting data on violins across Europe instruments made over hundreds of years, that information is not going to be available to you for free, that's why you pay an expert, he did all the work, what work did you do??

You seem to have got the wrong end of the stick. 

56 minutes ago, Delabo said:

The link seems to work for me.

I just downloaded a data file in ".json" format ----------   "NOAA A 2000 year long seasonal record of floods in the southern European Alps, Lake Ledro, Northern Italy (Wirth, S.B.)". ----------

Yesterday I couldn't access any data. Today I can’t even access the website.

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40 minutes ago, sospiri said:

Which part of " the link does not work for me" do you not understand?

 

You seem to have got the wrong end of the stick. 

Yesterday I couldn't access any data. Today I can’t even access the website.

Sounds like a you problem

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On 5/16/2021 at 1:33 PM, Bruce Carlson said:

It's a same tree match. 

Bruce, does this "new" Filius also have a long body stop? I'm wondering if the same influences that led Stradivari to make his long-pattern (and Rogeri his Maggini copies) didn't also inspire some other makers to start trying long body stops at this time (Joseph Filius and Alessandro Gagliano, for instance). 

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5 hours ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

Aren't you using the same telephone that wouldn't load pictures in another thread?

Aren't you glad I did though? It was worth the wait. You must be relieved it's all over?

 

4 hours ago, Televet said:

Sounds like a you problem

I'm incompetent right? You've said it three times. Three times in a row without offering a solution. That's some kind of record. Congratulations.

 

 

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21 hours ago, Ratcliffiddles said:

Which database? are you talking about ITRDB?

Is there a security risk to making the data public? Could anyone pretend to be a Dendrochronologist?

That aside, I am interested in the other information about wood that you have discussed. Is it reasonable to suggest that the Guarneri family had access to the best Spruce available?

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I can download data from ITRDB just fine with the link Peter supplied.

E.g. for spruce (picea abies) in Italy I found 5 datasets (studies) and verified download of one of them to my phone. metadata, measurments, chronologies and all, nicely zipped. The site works fine.

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3 hours ago, Michael Appleman said:

Bruce, does this "new" Filius also have a long body stop? I'm wondering if the same influences that led Stradivari to make his long-pattern (and Rogeri his Maggini copies) didn't also inspire some other makers to start trying long body stops at this time (Joseph Filius and Alessandro Gagliano, for instance). 

Yes, it's a long stop but I'm going on memory as I don't have my data at home. Stradivari precedes slightly as he was making the long stop already in 1690 but you see it off and on in other makers. It certainly wasn't as standardized as it is today.

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2 hours ago, sospiri said:

Is there a security risk to making the data public? Could anyone pretend to be a Dendrochronologist?

That aside, I am interested in the other information about wood that you have discussed. Is it reasonable to suggest that the Guarneri family had access to the best Spruce available?

The data is public, and it's freely available.  Why you cannot access it is beyond me.
"Could anyone pretend to be a Dendrochronologist? "  Yes, I suppose so, as much as one can pretend to be anything else.

I don't know of a convincing and universally accepted definition of "best Spruce". As far as the 3 "Filius" violins which, most likely share wood from the same tree, the tests suggest that the source of that tree is not quite the same as the one supplying wood for the majority of Italian contemporary instruments.

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26 minutes ago, Ratcliffiddles said:

The data is public, and it's freely available.  Why you cannot access it is beyond me.
"Could anyone pretend to be a Dendrochronologist? "  Yes, I suppose so, as much as one can pretend to be anything else.

I don't know of a convincing and universally accepted definition of "best Spruce". As far as the 3 "Filius" violins which, most likely share wood from the same tree, the tests suggest that the source of that tree is not quite the same as the one supplying wood for the majority of Italian contemporary instruments.

It maybe that the pages ate loading too slowly.

I was wondering if some makers had specific requirements for a certain quality of spruce? And if this partly explains Giuseppe del gesu's eminence as a maker learned from his early years?

 

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5 hours ago, sospiri said:

I'm incompetent right?

Only if you're a working professional in one of the disciplines that routinely use the NOAA datasets.  Otherwise, you're just not yet skilled enough to make use of the resource.  :)

You do, I hope, realize that resources like this aren't "user friendly", and you have to provide your own software applications to parse, display, and interpret the data?  That can be a chore.  :huh:

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I'm late to the party but I found some pictures!  Looks to be in very good shape.  

https://www.cnr.it/en/press-release/10283/a-guarneri-violin-in-the-attic

Is this literally the first time an "attic violin" turned out to be the real thing? Too bad most of us don't have Italian attics :lol:

I'm very happy for the owners, what an incredible find!  I hope this does well for the family.  I'll be watching the auctions to see if it turns up in the near future :) 

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9 hours ago, Jeny Mahon said:

...Is this literally the first time an "attic violin" turned out to be the real thing?...

No.  But one probably has a better chance of being struck by lightening than of finding something like this is the attic.

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12 hours ago, Violadamore said:

Only if you're a working professional in one of the disciplines that routinely use the NOAA datasets.  Otherwise, you're just not yet skilled enough to make use of the resource.  :)

You do, I hope, realize that resources like this aren't "user friendly", and you have to provide your own software applications to parse, display, and interpret the data?  That can be a chore.  :huh:

I'm a fast learner when I need to be. But otherwise Luddite.

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On 5/17/2021 at 7:52 AM, Delabo said:

This snippet from the article was interesting..................

"many violinmakers, collectors and restorers collected original labels. The original was removed from the instrument and a replica label was inserted in its place."

...

Well, that explains a lot. 

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18 hours ago, Violadamore said:

One cannot avoid wondering what the comments would have been, had this violin turned up on The Auction Scroll, as an eBay find.  :lol:

Attic-Guarneri.thumb.jpg.8bc2b6865fce64b87396d96b18c4c5a8.jpg

I would have said that the provided pictures aren’t even nearly adequate to form an opinion (they still aren’t)

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Whenever pictures of what might be a high quality violin show up on MN, I usually PM the poster and suggest they seek out a reputable expert. It seems that several other "regulars" do so as well. Photos like this would have probably ellicited that sort of response from several people here, "hard to tell from the photos" in public, and "show it to..." in private.

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