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Old vs 10 new... tone test


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On 5/13/2021 at 9:23 AM, Don Noon said:

Some day I'll nail down exactly what causes this.

There are some modern makers whose instruments have this kind of ‘foggy’ sound comparable to old instruments. (Or your description rounder on the bottom and very clear on higher strings) To me this is just making the top extremely thin somehow just a fraction thinner of what it could mechanical support. (I know at least one maker who built his reputation on doing this.) So in the end to make it work, it boils down to balance top thinness with the neck angle. 

Secondly there might be a relation to work precision. Put some uneccessary weight somewhere should be a disturbance factor (or damping). And again this kicks only in when the top is extremely thin.

For the same reason distortion was a sort of pre programmed on famed instruments and the master adjusters for those instruments became busy to recalibrate the neck settings to flatten the string angle to adjust them to stronger strings. 
 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Andreas Preuss said:

To me this is just making the top extremely thin somehow just a fraction thinner of what it could mechanical support.

That was Joseph Curtin's opinion when I asked why there was a difference between the spectra he showed between old and new instruments.  However, I have tried a few times thinning out plates very thin, and although some of the "old sound" is there (rounder low strings, "bridge hill" at lower frequencies), the "transition hill" always seems to be more like the modern form.  Perhaps with higher or different arching, that could be tuned down?  At this point, such a test would take more time than I'd want to spend on an experiment.

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It is interesting to listen and compare the sound samples of the higher-estimated price instruments in the current Tarisio London auction. They seem to be recorded in the same place by the same violinist, and I assume with the same equipment. 

It is a good demonstration illustrating that tone is not related to price. 

While there is a great difference in tone quality between individual violins, I don't hear a difference between the "older" violins as a group versus the "newer" violins as a group. I am not talking about one group being better or worse, just a difference between the groups.

Disclaimer: small n and non-random samples.

https://tarisio.com/auctions/auction/?csid=2199355392

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4 hours ago, Don Noon said:

Perhaps with higher or different arching, that could be tuned down? 

Since a few years my thoughts pivot around HOW the arching is made rather than how it looks like. I am searching a method where not 'I tell the wood which form it should have' but exactly the opposite 'the wood tells me in which form it wants to be'. 

In those terms I would never buy a CNC.

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18 hours ago, Andreas Preuss said:

'the wood tells me in which form it wants to be'. 

In those terms I would never buy a CNC.

Are you changing the target arching as you carve? How do you recognise the stiffness etc when the inside is still not carved?

You can easily program CNC to carve plate with 1 mm (or 2 mm or whatever you want) extra wood on outside and inside and start from there. Saves time and also wrists and tendons in the long term.

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1 hour ago, HoGo said:

Are you changing the target arching as you carve? How do you recognise the stiffness etc when the inside is still not carved?

You can easily program CNC to carve plate with 1 mm (or 2 mm or whatever you want) extra wood on outside and inside and start from there. Saves time and also wrists and tendons in the long term.

I never finish one side of the arching and then go to the other to make the thickness. To me this is like working with plastic.  I finish the plates simultaneously from both sides.

Its quite interesting to see under which conditions and how the shape of the entire plate deforms when making it wet. Usually the underside plane deforms as well which makes the usage of CNC to my understanding a bit tricky. 

working like this I don't have a pattern precise target arching and I don't think this is really necessary. 

I would use CNC rather for maple because this is usually where the wrist pain comes from. 

Edited by Andreas Preuss
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