Politically incorrect way to make violin?

[Violadamore]

14 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

Makes a change from asking what it sounds like

@David Burgessalready did that. 

Don will know the sort of thing I was referring to.  Some things that looked like aerodynamic heresy have flown like a bat out of hell, while some concepts that looked brilliant on the drawing board have performed abominably when built. 

Christian said he has some already built, so let's see a play-off against conventional violins.

[Mutters to herself, "And let the winner get the contract...."] 

[Bill Yacey]

The bass bar idea sort of intrigues me. I wonder what a conventional wood plate / bar configuration would do if the bar was arched so it only contacts the bridge area and the ends. Perhaps this would free up the plate movement a little.

[Violadamore]

55 minutes ago, Bill Yacey said:

The bass bar idea sort of intrigues me. I wonder what a conventional wood plate / bar configuration would do if the bar was arched so it only contacts the bridge area and the ends. Perhaps this would free up the plate movement a little.

The bass bar is the only part of this that troubles me.  @christian bayonwill understand when I say that it reminds me of tubing or a wiring harness running unsupported between frames, which can produce unwanted vibrations.    OTOH, it looks like he may have tuned it to avoid results that he doesn't want.

[christian bayon]

1 hour ago, Violadamore said:

@christian bayon, do you have any performance videos? 

With IPhone in my studio.

06-05-2021, 16_30_21.mp3

[Violadamore]

8 minutes ago, christian bayon said:

With IPhone in my studio.

06-05-2021, 16_30_21.mp3 1.47 MB · 6 downloads

WOW!  Nice!!  Of course, now the arguments about microphones and signal processing will begin............... 

[Rue]

I thought it sounded awesome  ...even with my 'crappy' speakers!  

[christian bayon]

1 hour ago, Bill Yacey said:

The bass bar idea sort of intrigues me. I wonder what a conventional wood plate / bar configuration would do if the bar was arched so it only contacts the bridge area and the ends. Perhaps this would free up the plate movement a little.

I did before, same system but with wood bass-bar

[Rue]

10 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

WOW!  Nice!!  Of course, now the arguments about microphones and signal processing will begin............... 

Now we just have to compare it to The Tuscan...

[Violadamore]

14 minutes ago, Rue said:

I thought it sounded awesome  ...even with my 'crappy' speakers!  

Trust me, it still sounds great when fed to a decent home sound system. 

[David Burgess]

1 hour ago, Violadamore said:

WOW!  Nice!!  Of course, now the arguments about microphones and signal processing will begin............... 

Yup. Recordings of violin sound are always inaccurate. One needs to look at the recording and playback chain, including the equipment used, to have any idea of what's going on. Even changing the distance between the violin and the microphone, or the distance from a sound-reflecting or absorbing back wall, can have major influences.

Christian, would you be willing to send me one of your violins built this way, that I can pass along to some pretty-good players in my area, to get their feedback? I'm OK with the normal "approval" process where the maker or dealer pays outgoing shipping, and the recipient pays to return it if they are not interested in purchasing it, if that works for you.

[christian bayon]

23 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

Yup. Recordings of violin sound are always inaccurate. One needs to look at the recording and playback chain, including the equipment used, to have any idea of what's going on. Even changing the distance between the violin and the microphone, or the distance from a sound-reflecting or absorbing back wall, can have major influences.

Christian, would you be willing to send me one of your violins built this way, that I can pass along to some pretty-good players in my area, to get their feedback? I'm OK with the normal process where the maker or dealer pays outgoing shipping, and the recipient pays to return it.

Thanks David for your proposal, but I can’t send you a violin. My customer are waiting.

i just send once a violin, in Europe, because of Covid. In normal times, my clients come to my shop or I travel for the delivery.

[David Burgess]

18 minutes ago, christian bayon said:

Thanks David for your proposal, but I can’t send you a violin. My customer are waiting.

Lots of people have customers waiting. Still, many of us send out samples or examples, or refer others to people who already own them, with no need to do so.  What's your position on that?

[Carl Stross]

1 hour ago, christian bayon said:

With IPhone in my studio.

06-05-2021, 16_30_21.mp3 1.47 MB · 33 downloads

Is it full size ?

[christian bayon]

David, well, I’m not very ambitious, I’m ok with European market. 
 

[christian bayon]

1 minute ago, Carl Stross said:

Is it full size ?

I thought, but I’ll check.

[christian bayon]

Bit more.

 

 

[Michael Appleman]

I saw your Facebook post, Christian, and I found it intriguing! I hope one day soon things will get back to normal, and I'll be able to pay you a visit in Lisbon and try one of these wild creations, before heading over to the Cervejaria Ramiro for some étrilles and araignée de mer...

[christian bayon]

6 minutes ago, Michael Appleman said:

I saw your Facebook post, Christian, and I found it intriguing! I hope one day soon things will get back to normal, and I'll be able to pay you a visit in Lisbon and try one of these wild creations, before heading over to the Cervejaria Ramiro for some étrilles and araignée de mer...

You are very welcome!

or in Paris!

[Michael Appleman]

25 minutes ago, christian bayon said:

or in Paris!

if only I knew of a place in Paris where you can get seafood like at Ramiro's! 

Very interested in your "wolf killer" thickness tongue...I regret that I just closed up the box of my latest violin and am preparing the neck...too late to try a new experiment. My approach which has been working on the last few fiddles has been to leave the top a little thicker just below the bass ff, but I find your approach interesting!

[Marty Kasprzyk]

15 hours ago, christian bayon said:

Can we imagine Tesla or Mercedes engIneers spending all their time  studying De Dion Bouton or Delahayes cars? It’s what I did for 45 years being a good boy in violin-making.

My approach today is bit different, I started my career as military aircraft engineer, why not to go back to this way of thinking?

And if it’s to take inspiration on Andrea Amati, Antonio Stradivari or Guarneri del Gésù, why not to copy the spirit, innovative, than the objects!

Having now a more practical approach of the physical of violin.

The plant leaf is way ahead of us violin makers.  You might like the book "Plant Biomechanics, an engineering approach to plant form and function" by Karl

Niklas

[Don Noon]

16 minutes ago, Marty Kasprzyk said:

The plant leaf is way ahead of us violin makers.

Plants make wood, and so far it doesn't seem we've done too well at getting ahead of that for making instruments.  Wood is good.

[catnip]

I can see trying this design with a spruce top, especially the increased thickness below the bass f-hole but I don't see the purpose of the supports (diagonal braces) for the back.  Have you tried this with a standard graduated back?

[christian bayon]

1 hour ago, catnip said:

I can see trying this design with a spruce top, especially the increased thickness below the bass f-hole but I don't see the purpose of the supports (diagonal braces) for the back.  Have you tried this with a standard graduated back?

Yes, for one year, I just made the change one the top, more recently, I start to make the diagonal braces on the back.

the increased thickness under the bass F hole is the less efficient part of the system.

I’ll change it in the next instrument.

[baroquecello]

I would agree with the player: it sounds very good!

As you say the thickened part under the f hole is the least efficient part, maybe you could elaborate on the other parts a little? I'm a little surprised by your bass bar, in particular when thinking of your triangular shaped bass bar which was somewhat heavier than a regular one, this one is likely a lot lighter, is it not? How do you explain that it works well nonetheless? Because the missing weight is in the braces?

And the most important question: have you tried this out on a cello yet?

[christian bayon]

15 hours ago, Urban Luthier said:

Fascinating Christian thanks for sharing!  What are your design and engineering objectives? Increased response from a loudness perspective (projection)? Enhancing certain frequencies i.e. around 1K? strength vs weight? Other? 

My objectives are quite basic.

 I don’t think in vibrations ( I already hear people screaming) I think in terms of static balance. If all the stress (strings tension through the neck, top compression and back stretching, bridge pressure on the top and sound post on the back and so on...) are absorbed by certain part of your violin, the part you want to vibrate will be more free. Like a drum with very rigid frame, let the skin free to vibrate.

my instruments are not particularly light, I’m not looking for that, they are more stable.