Politically incorrect way to make violin?

[christian bayon]

Can we imagine Tesla or Mercedes engIneers spending all their time  studying De Dion Bouton or Delahayes cars? It’s what I did for 45 years being a good boy in violin-making.

My approach today is bit different, I started my career as military aircraft engineer, why not to go back to this way of thinking?

And if it’s to take inspiration on Andrea Amati, Antonio Stradivari or Guarneri del Gésù, why not to copy the spirit, innovative, than the objects!

Having now a more practical approach of the physical of violin.

[David Burgess]

Wow!!

How does it sound?

[Peter K-G]

[christian bayon]

14 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

Wow!!

How does it sound?

Three concertmaster in European orchestra and a soloist are using this new shape with good results.

[Jim Bress]

Wow, that's definitely something new.  "I started my career as military aircraft engineer" That was a 20 year chapter in my life. 

Do the structure supports (for lack of a better name) allow you to make the plates thinner? Thanks for showing your work.

-Jim

[violins88]

Double wow!

[FiddleDoug]

Very different! Is the "bassbar" carbon fiber? And does it touch the cross support in the plate?

[christian bayon]

53 minutes ago, Jim Bress said:

Wow, that's definitely something new.  "I started my career as military aircraft engineer" That was a 20 year chapter in my life. 

Do the structure supports (for lack of a better name) allow you to make the plates thinner? Thanks for showing your work.

-Jim

The final weight of my plate is not very different of a normal violin, just a little bit lighter. It’s more a different repartition of the material, more where the tension are and less where there is no need.

[christian bayon]

30 minutes ago, FiddleDoug said:

Very different! Is the "bassbar" carbon fiber? And does it touch the cross support in the plate?

Yes, carbon fibre tube set in 3 spruce pieces.

the bass bar doesn’t touch the cross support 

[jacobsaunders]

What does “Political Correctness” (or not) have to do with pointless messing around?

[christian bayon]

 Pointless?

[GeorgeH]

Wow, very interesting - thanks for posting.

Do you have any sound samples?

Does it still use a conventional sound post?

Any deviations from a conventional back plate?

[Andreas Preuss]

Pretty cool.

What is the weight of the finished fiddle? I mean in terms of aircraft engineering it should be as light as possible. (Guess why I am asking.)

[Deo Lawson]

That's so cool! I want to play one. My gut reaction was sorta that it was another "improved bass bar" and an overcomplication, but I'd be happy to be surprised.

[CaseyLouque]

So is there a reason to carve it in that way instead of just gluing in bracing similar to archtop guitar bracing?

[jacobsaunders]

1 hour ago, christian bayon said:

 Pointless?

Ok, I re-phrase, I don't get the point

[christian bayon]

3 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

Ok, I re-phrase, I don't get the point

You don’t necessarily need.

[christian bayon]

34 minutes ago, CaseyLouque said:

So is there a reason to carve it in that way instead of just gluing in bracing similar to archtop guitar bracing?

Cross grain wood would act very differently. 

[jacobsaunders]

5 minutes ago, christian bayon said:

You don’t necessarily need.

Phew, glad about that

[avandesande]

Deformation eliminator sounds good, ditto for wolf notes, but what does a 'sound killer' do?

[Violadamore]

5 hours ago, christian bayon said:

I started my career as military aircraft engineer

There's a surprising number of us here on MN who did that as part of our careers.  Probably evidence that luthiers are naturally flighty........     

I really like your design, BTW.  Dieter Ennemoser in Austria is doing something vaguely similar, but claims acoustic reasons for it.

1 hour ago, CaseyLouque said:

So is there a reason to carve it in that way instead of just gluing in bracing similar to archtop guitar bracing?

Stress elimination, increased strength, crack prevention, smooth transmission of forces, simplified work-flow, lack of joints to fail, same reasons that many advanced modern aircraft frames and skin panels are milled from solid metal, rather than formed or assembled from pieces.  The support structures and curved surfaces are literally carved in to begin with.  It's a technically elegant approach, but usually too expensive to use in civilian applications. 

[Urban Luthier]

Fascinating Christian thanks for sharing!  What are your design and engineering objectives? Increased response from a loudness perspective (projection)? Enhancing certain frequencies i.e. around 1K? strength vs weight? Other? 

[Don Noon]

Having fooled around with bracing and such in the past, I remain skeptical.  In my view, non-uniformities in plate stiffness tend to also result in more non-uniformities in the sound spectrum, usually not good.  If done well, maybe they can be not-too-bad.

[Violadamore]

15 minutes ago, Don Noon said:

Having fooled around with bracing and such in the past, I remain skeptical.  In my view, non-uniformities in plate stiffness tend to also result in more non-uniformities in the sound spectrum, usually not good.  If done well, maybe they can be not-too-bad.

Sometimes you gotta just build a prototype to see how it flies, and violins are much harder to model computationally than winged things.  I'm interested in seeing how well it works practically.  IIRC, you've done a lot of that yourself. 

@christian bayon, do you have any performance videos? 

[jacobsaunders]

4 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

see how it flies,

Makes a change from asking what it sounds like