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Arzt Antal V.M.


nimrak
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16 hours ago, nimrak said:

Any one can tell about this particular violin maker. I have one in position. Thanks in advance kind strangers!

T2 Lot 190 from 02/15/2021?   https://t2-auctions.com/auctions/lot/?csid=2199420928&cpid=3713253376&filter_key=

What I know of him is that he was a competent Budapest maker, studied under Istvan Havas, and worked in the notorious "English Workshop" in Budapest for part of his career.  Judging by recent offerings, he also seems to have produced quite a lot of violins dated "1966".  :lol:

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17 hours ago, Violadamore said:

 

What I know of him is that he was a competent Budapest maker, studied under Istvan Havas, and worked in the notorious "English Workshop" in Budapest for part of his career.  Judging by recent offerings, he also seems to have produced quite a lot of violins dated "1966".  :lol:

The apparent glut of 1966 Arzt violins may be a bit of a "webstat" brought on my the fact that one we sold a while back created a bit of a flurry of activity on Pinterest. I can't find any others dated 1966, and the one we sold was the only one I have seen other than the recent T2 sale.

Have you found others from 1966?

Yes, Arzt is listed by Benedek as one of the makers who worked for (not necessarily in) the "English Workshop". Incidentally he died in 1997 at the age of 97!

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2 hours ago, martin swan said:

The apparent glut of 1966 Arzt violins may be a bit of a "webstat" brought on my the fact that one we sold a while back created a bit of a flurry of activity on Pinterest. I can't find any others dated 1966, and the one we sold was the only one I have seen other than the recent T2 sale.

Have you found others from 1966?

Yes, Arzt is listed by Benedek as one of the makers who worked for (not necessarily in) the "English Workshop". Incidentally he died in 1997 at the age of 97!

What I found is that your example, dated 1966, is plainly marked "Opus 46", while the T2 example. also dated 1966, is stated in the description to be "Opus 77".  Going back after seeing your post above, I examined zoomed images of both actual labels, and find the "4" on your example to be an unequivocal ballpoint-written number 4, with straight verticals and a visible crossing between the vertical and the horizontal.  On the T2 example, OTOH,  the MSF of the opus number is a single-stroke "squiggle" which arguably could be a "9", a "7", or a "4", with the "7" interpretation called into question by the obvious crossbar on the LSF "7", which is missing on the MSF.  I could be persuaded that the two violins are actually Opus 46 and Opus 47, but numbered by two different writers (there are also telling differences between the "66" markings on the two labels as well).  Note well that the label differences (as well as visible differences in appearance) strongly suggest that the two violins came from a workshop environment, rather than being bespoke from a master's bench.  I have been unable to find photo examples of any label years other than 1966, BTW.

https://t2-auctions.com/auctions/lot/?csid=2199420928&cpid=3713253376&filter_key=

https://www.martinswanviolins.com/budapest-violin/

Antal Artz instruments have been called into question on MN before:

https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/345295-viola-identification/

Finally, given that AA died in 1997, the item below becomes most interesting:

https://www.bromptons.co/reference/results/details/viola-by-artz-antal-budapest-2000.html

I suspect that AA, like many another, began as a maker, and ended as a "brand". :)

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I don't think the matter is nearly as interesting as you make it out to be.

If we're going to be rigorous, let's just look at the violin we sold and the T2 violin and debate whether they are by the same maker. I don't see the relevance of an auction listing for an alleged instrument for which there are no photos, or of a Maestronet discussion of one (and only one) instrument with an apocryphal label.

Personally I see the T2 instrument as being by the same hand as the one we sold. Both are rather hurriedly built but very characteristic. I'm wondering where you see significant differences?

If you want to discuss the labels, then I would say that we are looking at opus 46 and 47, both in the same hand but on different days and with a different pen - all four 6s are entirely different, looks to me like someone with sloppy handwriting. 

I don't see any evidence of a "workshop" environment, kind of the opposite, a rather idiosyncratic and unpretentious personal style. 

 

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5 hours ago, Violadamore said:

Antal Artz instruments have been called into question on MN before:

Not his "instruments have been called into quiestion" within this thread, but only the viola pictured there. His name was often abused by contemporary fakers due to the believe "who can tell if it's real", but there's a very characteristical body of work by him.

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2 hours ago, martin swan said:

I don't think the matter is nearly as interesting as you make it out to be.

If we're going to be rigorous, let's just look at the violin we sold and the T2 violin and debate whether they are by the same maker. I don't see the relevance of an auction listing for an alleged instrument for which there are no photos, or of a Maestronet discussion of one (and only one) instrument with an apocryphal label.

Personally I see the T2 instrument as being by the same hand as the one we sold. Both are rather hurriedly built but very characteristic. I'm wondering where you see significant differences?

If you want to discuss the labels, then I would say that we are looking at opus 46 and 47, both in the same hand but on different days and with a different pen - all four 6s are entirely different, looks to me like someone with sloppy handwriting. 

I don't see any evidence of a "workshop" environment, kind of the opposite, a rather idiosyncratic and unpretentious personal style. 

 

Okay.  I have no deep attachment to any theories here, or any axe to grind.  :)

Something else I noticed is that the sale prices, what of them there are, seem to stay comparatively low.  I also found that this is another case where both Tarisio and Amati don't post a maker's bio for him, and there's no "background chatter" of retail offerings and prior auctions.  That just seems odd for someone with so long a career, especially since you and Blankie seem to be well aware of him.  I'm wondering if this is another case of a locally-selling maker, almost unknown outside of his own area.  The most available digital documentation for him seems to be on MN.

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2 hours ago, Violadamore said:

Okay.  I have no deep attachment to any theories here, or any axe to grind.  :)

Something else I noticed is that the sale prices, what of them there are, seem to stay comparatively low.  I also found that this is another case where both Tarisio and Amati don't post a maker's bio for him, and there's no "background chatter" of retail offerings and prior auctions.  That just seems odd for someone with so long a career, especially since you and Blankie seem to be well aware of him.  I'm wondering if this is another case of a locally-selling maker, almost unknown outside of his own area.  The most available digital documentation for him seems to be on MN.

Arzt was a relatively unpolished Hungarian maker and I wouldn't make any big claims for him ... if you consider that the best Hungarian makers from the 20th century are massively undervalued, it's not much of a surprise that someone like Arzt has no cachet. 

There's also a general prejudice against anything that was made in a country that's now perceived as Eastern Bloc or ex-Communist. And very few Hungarian violins make it into British or American auctions.

With regard to Tarisio and Amati biographies, these are just clickbait regurgitated lists of mainstream makers - if you study the makers of any country in detail you'll find hundreds of names that haven't made it onto these lists.

The internet is a very poor source of information for this kind of thing.

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