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30 minutes ago, palousian said:

He's a lot closer than that ridonkulous bust is.

painting of young white man with abundant curly brown hair and side-whiskers, wearing bright red cravat

On the one hand, Berlioz usually looked little like the bust.  OTOH, even Berloz's perhaps greatest work, the Symphonie fantastique, is lightweight compared to any Beethoven symphony.   IMHO, no later composer really equaled Beethoven in impact until Tchaikovsky came along.  :)

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Violadamore said:

 OTOH, even Berloz's perhaps greatest work, the Symphonie fantastique, is lightweight compared to any Beethoven symphony.   IMHO, no later composer really equaled Beethoven in impact until Tchaikovsky came along.  :)

Oh yeah, no debate on that.  I was entirely focused on the likeness here.  It's arguable that no other composer equaled Beethoven's impact.

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10 hours ago, Violadamore said:

painting of young white man with abundant curly brown hair and side-whiskers, wearing bright red cravat

On the one hand, Berlioz usually looked little like the bust.  OTOH, even Berloz's perhaps greatest work, the Symphonie fantastique, is lightweight compared to any Beethoven symphony.   IMHO, no later composer really equaled Beethoven in impact until Tchaikovsky came along.  :)

 

 

 

Bite your tongue!

TCHAIKOVSKY???

theres a story about Brahms meeting Tchaikovsky. Each loathed the others’ music and refused to offer false compliments, until one of them confessed his dislike to the other, the other agreed and they got along well after that.

They were both correct.


After Beethoven the next guy worthy of his Mantle was Mahler, who had something to say and said it stunningly well.

But Tchaikovsky?

tsk tsk...

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37 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

Bite your tongue!

TCHAIKOVSKY???

theres a story about Brahms meeting Tchaikovsky. Each loathed the others’ music and refused to offer false compliments, until one of them confessed his dislike to the other, the other agreed and they got along well after that.

They were both correct.


After Beethoven the next guy worthy of his Mantle was Mahler, who had something to say and said it stunningly well.

But Tchaikovsky?

tsk tsk...

And the next one after Tchaikovsky was Sibelius!  :P:P:P

 

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On 4/27/2021 at 8:02 PM, Violadamore said:

And the next one after Tchaikovsky was Sibelius!  :P:P:P

Nah, the next one after Beethoven was Louis Armstrong.  Had Tchaikovsky, Mahler, or Sibelius not existed, Western music would have had plenty to sustain it.  They are, in fact, disposable.   The thing about Beethoven was that he changed everything.  No composer could ignore him.  They could ignore the others. 

When you look for game-changers like that, there is no one in European music that equals Beethoven, unless it's Haydn, who provided the composition chops for Beethoven and of the rest of the Viennese masters.  Would we have had Beethoven without Haydn?  Maybe not.

In that sense, in the classical European world, the next game-changer might have been Paganini.  Playing the violin was not the same after him, and his influence was felt outside just violin-playing--he inspired Liszt too.

So, that's why my next real example is Louis Armstrong.  If we had no Satchmo, there is a WHOLE lot of jazz that never would have happened.  He freed the phrase from the clock to make it swing, and once you heard that, there was no going back.  I really do think that Armstrong was the "Beethoven" of jazz, in that sense.

My next example will amuse most of you, but... prove me wrong...  Earl Scruggs.  There is banjo before-Scruggs and after-Scruggs.  He changed everything.  No one who now plays five-string banjo can escape his influence.  

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On 4/27/2021 at 6:47 PM, Violadamore said:

painting of young white man with abundant curly brown hair and side-whiskers, wearing bright red cravat

On the one hand, Berlioz usually looked little like the bust.  OTOH, even Berloz's perhaps greatest work, the Symphonie fantastique, is lightweight compared to any Beethoven symphony.   IMHO, no later composer really equaled Beethoven in impact until Tchaikovsky came along:)

 

 

 

Keep thinking - it'll come to you. Eventually.

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7 hours ago, palousian said:

My next example will amuse most of you, but... prove me wrong...  Earl Scruggs.  There is banjo before-Scruggs and after-Scruggs.  He changed everything.  No one who now plays five-string banjo can escape his influence.  

Yes, amusing. :D I don't think that you can separate Earl Scruggs from Bill Monroe who pioneered the genre of Bluegrass music that put Scruggs-style banjo playing front-and-center.  Bill Monroe started Scruggs' career.

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3 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

I don't think that you can separate Earl Scruggs from Bill Monroe who pioneered the genre of Bluegrass music that put Scruggs-style banjo playing front-and-center.

Arguably, it's the other way around.  Bill Monroe had some innovations (keep in mind, he was a contemporary of Charlie Parker), but even his music was never the same after Scruggs came on the scene.  Scruggs was already doing his three-finger style, and it was infectious.  He would have done that with anyone.  Scruggs could drop Monroe and move on with Lester Flatt, but after Earl, Bill Monroe had to find someone else who could play a banjo like that (and he got Don Reno).

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/12/2021 at 4:40 AM, vathek said:

May not even be a composer, could be some statesman or politician or famous doctor etc.

Funny you should say that. I thought it looked like David Cameron, The British PM who set Britain on the road to Brexit

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