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Hide glue acoustic qualities


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6 minutes ago, chiaroscuro_violins said:

It happens when the initial hypothesis is without merit.  

Some unwritten rule of MN? "All topics which are deemed unsatisfactory by whomever must degenerate into chinrest rubbish"? News to me, thanks for the heads up.

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3 hours ago, ShadowStrad said:

What about Elmer's paste that you ate in kindergarten?  

I don't think that was Elmers brand. But if that kid's paste wasn't made to eat, why was it mint flavored? :)

Haven't tried it on a fiddle.

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5 hours ago, JacksonMaberry said:

Some unwritten rule of MN? "All topics which are deemed unsatisfactory by whomever must degenerate into chinrest rubbish"? News to me, thanks for the heads up.

It's marketing disguised as science.

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16 hours ago, chiaroscuro_violins said:

Glue creep refers to the gradual "creep" of the glue joints over time.  It's really a problem with neck joints.  AFAIK, it's not a humidity thing, but rather a result of constant force being applied.  Hide glue actually doesn't creep; other glues do.  

If it's a problem with neck joints, then it is a humidity problem. 

There is a settling in period after the instrument is first strung up. Not because the neck glue joint is moving, but the wood.

This is an observable fact. But then I expect the neck not to move more. If the glue joint is softening, that is a humidity problem is it not?

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You might get away with creepy glue for a center joint, as the loads on the joint would be mostly compression due to the crossgrain arch.  

I tried Titebond on a neck once on a cheapo fiddle many years ago... it slowly rotated out.  

That fish glue I remember in grade school (the liquid in the bottle with the rubber snout) would have been better... as long as it didn't get wet.

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6 minutes ago, Don Noon said:

...

That fish glue I remember in grade school (the liquid in the bottle with the rubber snout) would have been better... as long as it didn't get wet.

If it's the same thing I remember, I believe you're thinking of mucilage, which is plant based.

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7 hours ago, JacksonMaberry said:

Some unwritten rule of MN? "All topics which are deemed unsatisfactory by whomever must degenerate into chinrest rubbish"? News to me, thanks for the heads up.

Guessing this is tongue in cheek, but just to be clear I'm not pretending to have assimilated into this community so quickly.  I've been here under a month.  I just have a habit of poking fun at myself.  

1 hour ago, sospiri said:

It's marketing disguised as science.

Oh yes, they're just raking it in selling us $15 chin rests for our $10000 fiddles... It's not even like consumers buy a selection of chin rests to try; usually you'd just go to a shop for adjusting, and try their inventory.  

Why are all these experienced adjusters, and not the chin rest manufacturers, the ones to suggest they help the sound?  

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3 hours ago, sospiri said:

If it's a problem with neck joints, then it is a humidity problem. 

There is a settling in period after the instrument is first strung up. Not because the neck glue joint is moving, but the wood.

This is an observable fact. But then I expect the neck not to move more. If the glue joint is softening, that is a humidity problem is it not?

It’s been verified by the manufacturers that it is a glue problem. It has nothing to do with humidity.

 

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I just spoke with Joe Thrift. He still swears by Ponal for center joints, purfling, rib-block joins. Everything else is hide glue.

He also said there is a Ponal Express which dries super fast. He use that for a quick repairs.

Joe is also putting together a workshop, not the one in Fredericksburg which appears to be permanently closed. (The violin shop, however, continues full bore.) When I get details, I will post the information. Joe is a fantastic teacher.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Rothwein said:

If it's the same thing I remember, I believe you're thinking of mucilage, which is plant based.

I'm thinking that it was animal glue, dumbed down to give it a longer working time for dinkers and amateurs, sort of like the "liquid hide glue" which is popular on hardware store  shelves, for those who do not know any better.

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The bottle shape I remember:

978c9f37f2179cdf5054541c030d428f--sunday

While it says "mucilage" and apparently that was gum arabic, there is also some info. that LePage made fish glue as well.

I have some StewMac fish glue, and it has the same unmistakable smell that I remember from 60+ years ago.  Maybe the arabic and fish glue both have the same additive... I don't know.

https://thecakelady.ca/lepagesglue/mucilage.html

 

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6 hours ago, Michael_Molnar said:

It’s been verified by the manufacturers that it is a glue problem. It has nothing to do with humidity.

 

Titebond specifically? But not hide glue?

9 hours ago, David Burgess said:

Not necessarily. Some glues just move (slowly) under sustained load. Titebond's literature warns about that.

 

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