Jwr2454 Posted April 20, 2021 Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 Can anyone tell me if this is an authentic Bisiach violin? This was passed down to my grandmother who gave it to me to get appraised. If it is authentic, how much could this be worth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipKT Posted April 20, 2021 Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 Look at the bows too. They both look silver mounted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avandesande Posted April 20, 2021 Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 looks real to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted April 20, 2021 Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 Please photograph it such that one can see it properly like this until such time I will presume it comes from Markneukirchen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wood Butcher Posted April 20, 2021 Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 3 hours ago, avandesande said: looks real to me It is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strad O Various Jr. Posted April 20, 2021 Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 As far as Markneukirchen violins look, it is one of the nicer ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delabo Posted April 20, 2021 Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 7 hours ago, Jwr2454 said: If it is authentic, how much could this be worth? If it is genuine, it is worth a lot of money. The signature looks pretty convincing. But they can be forged and need a hand writing expert to confirm. And at the end of the day it would need an expert to see it in real life to confirm its authenticity. Meanwhile post more and better photos as detailed in the sticky in this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank face Posted April 20, 2021 Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 29 minutes ago, Delabo said: The signature looks pretty convincing. I'm unaware that Bisiach used handwritten labels (please correct me if you have evidence). As far as the OP label goes it looks like artificially aged, with deliberate dirt applications, scratches etc. at a rather modern paper. The violin itself looks nice but could be anything by the photos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delabo Posted April 20, 2021 Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Blank face said: I'm unaware that Bisiach used handwritten labels (please correct me if you have evidence). My apologies if it came across that I was suggesting that he used handwritten labels. I am in no way suggesting that the label might be genuine, quite the opposite in fact. I hope I have not raised the OPs hopes as I am not an expert. My reference to his signature was from a printed label signed by him which I found in a decent violin shop which I have now lost the link too. Anyway, i did download a picture of the label and I will try to find the place where I found it.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelbow Posted April 20, 2021 Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 You can see pictures of a Leandro Bisiach violin here (sadly no picture of the label). https://collections.ram.ac.uk/IMU/#/details/ecatalogue/31712 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin swan Posted April 20, 2021 Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 27 minutes ago, Shelbow said: You can see pictures of a Leandro Bisiach violin here (sadly no picture of the label). https://collections.ram.ac.uk/IMU/#/details/ecatalogue/31712 Leandro Bisiach (or more accurately the Leandro Bisiach workshop) made various different models, so I wouldn't treat the example in the RAM collection as particularly typical ... However, I'm afraid the OP violin is by no stretch of the imagination a Bisiach - to me it looks like a very straightforward nicer Markneukirchen violin from the 1920s/30s as others have suggested. The only bow where I can really see the metal looks like a nickel mounted German student bow to me - just very dirty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted April 20, 2021 Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 11 hours ago, Jwr2454 said: Quote 3 hours ago, Delabo said: The signature looks pretty convincing. We have had threads before on the subject of how one tells a genuine label from a Fahrkarte. Perhaps somebody else has more luck with the search function. To start with the basics; A violin label, snugly hidden away inside the violin box, is not normally subject to any attrition, as were any bits on the outside of a violin. The Op label has suffered attrition, is dog eared, has one corner missing and isn’t glued down everywhere properly- a typical attribute of a Fahrkarte that has been added through the fhole at a later date. Further the back has an orange/yellowish stain, whereas the label is stained greyish. It isn’t possible to tell from the inadequate photos, if it is actually handwritten, or just a photo-copy. In short a howling Fahrkarte. I add a few radom kosher labels to prove the point I requested better pictures above to tell exactly what the fiddle is, but the general appearance and the arching indicate a fiddle made from pre-milled Markneukirchen bits, I would just like some shots of the ribs to be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipKT Posted April 20, 2021 Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 1 hour ago, martin swan said: The only bow where I can really see the metal looks like a nickel mounted German student bow to me - just very dirty! Martin doesn’t the top bow show tarnish that indicates silver mounting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted April 20, 2021 Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 11 minutes ago, PhilipKT said: Martin doesn’t the top bow show tarnish that indicates silver mounting? Don’t you differentiate between dirt and tarnish in Texas then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipKT Posted April 20, 2021 Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said: Don’t you differentiate between dirt and tarnish in Texas then? We let the Help take care of the dirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwr2454 Posted April 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 2 hours ago, jacobsaunders said: We have had threads before on the subject of how one tells a genuine label from a Fahrkarte. Perhaps somebody else has more luck with the search function. To start with the basics; A violin label, snugly hidden away inside the violin box, is not normally subject to any attrition, as were any bits on the outside of a violin. The Op label has suffered attrition, is dog eared, has one corner missing and isn’t glued down everywhere properly- a typical attribute of a Fahrkarte that has been added through the fhole at a later date. Further the back has an orange/yellowish stain, whereas the label is stained greyish. It isn’t possible to tell from the inadequate photos, if it is actually handwritten, or just a photo-copy. In short a howling Fahrkarte. I add a few radom kosher labels to prove the point I requested better pictures above to tell exactly what the fiddle is, but the general appearance and the arching indicate a fiddle made from pre-milled Markneukirchen bits, I would just like some shots of the ribs to be sure. Thanks for the info. Here is a side picture... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwr2454 Posted April 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 1 hour ago, PhilipKT said: Martin doesn’t the top bow show tarnish that indicates silver mounting? Here are some more pictures of the bows: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwr2454 Posted April 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 9 hours ago, jacobsaunders said: Please photograph it such that one can see it properly like this until such time I will presume it comes from Markneukirchen Some more images... I found a receipt in one of the compartments inside the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted April 20, 2021 Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 A nice Markneukirchen violin from the first half of the 20th C. I would want to retail it, after I had freshed everything up for about €2,500. The guarantee on your repair slip from 1969 has probably run out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sospiri Posted April 20, 2021 Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 What's a spray perm finish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violinjon Posted April 20, 2021 Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 The bows are silver, authentic looking and definitely worth something assuming there are no hidden cracks in the sticks. They are very very dirty, however. Assuming this is a Markneukirchen violin (Jacob Saunders would know) they are worth more than the violin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted April 20, 2021 Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 Yes Philip was right, tarnish. Both the bow are fairly knackered though, I can almost hear my bow person groaning if I brought them around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelbow Posted April 20, 2021 Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 Yay for Philip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted April 20, 2021 Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 23 minutes ago, Shelbow said: Yay for Philip 23 minutes ago, Shelbow said: Yay for Philip Yes, he can do a victory lap now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipKT Posted April 20, 2021 Report Share Posted April 20, 2021 34 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said: Yes Philip was right, tarnish. Both the bow are fairly knackered though, I can almost hear my bow person groaning if I brought them around May I please have that in writing? ”PHILIP IS RIGHT.” Im ever so grateful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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