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Would anyone be willing to tell me how to find or direct me towards a Del Gesu template? 

Edit: I should have told you guys that I am learning traditionally, in person, and as my Meister had not had any interest in making Guarneri before, he instructed me to find a precut metal template. one; because he dislikes plastic ones, two; he very much dislikes cutting metal ones (I will eventually cut one myself, but not yet), and three; it comes with  the F and scroll as well. I went with Kreissler model. I will be working on some repairs on my own instruments at the shop until the templates arrive, and then proceed to the mould.

I appreciate all of your answers and concerns. I believe that hearing of many methods will broaden my understanding in the future as I start to make my own path. I will also document my process here for that reason, but I will have to keep in mind that Ray has his way of doing things and thats the way I will be doing things too for the present.

Thanks

Edited by Flattmountain
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Buy a Strad poster. "Brusilow" poster has CT scan and it is very "complete". 

If you want Cannone, you buy a CD together with title  "Paganini s violin" from Dynamic. Accardo plays many pieces and the edition has very nice folio with information about that violin.  

 

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14 minutes ago, Goran74 said:

Buy a Strad poster. "Brusilow" poster has CT scan and it is very "complete". 

If you want Cannone, you buy a CD together with title  "Paganini s violin" from Dynamic. Accardo plays many pieces and the edition has very nice folio with information about that violin.  

 

thank you! I will look, but my brain just remembered that international has metal ones...:rolleyes:

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2mm aluminium, or thin plastic or wood and you can cut your own.

Avoid ready made templates for many reasons. 

Pay less for a good plan, than a lot more for bad made (and useless as you will realize after time) templates. 

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58 minutes ago, Flattmountain said:

thank you! I will look, but my brain just remembered that international has metal ones...:rolleyes:

avoid those. they will not take you where you want to go. Also, creating the templates is a significant part of understanding how and why. 

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1 minute ago, chiaroscuro_violins said:

Some of them also, unfortunately, do not include the rib outline.  

True, but not one of the earlier posters did, and people still managed.

Without a rib outline, there is the option or using the purfling line, if full size photos are available (probably most accurate method), or working back from the plate outline and deducting overhang + rib thickness.

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Just now, Wood Butcher said:

True, but not one of the earlier posters did, and people still managed.

Without a rib outline, there is the option or using the purfling line, if full size photos are available (probably most accurate method), or working back from the plate outline and deducting overhang + rib thickness.

My first couple violins were based on older posters, and I definitely remember a mould outline being provided.

And yes, I'm familiar with how to work backwards, but it wouldn't be an ideal situation for OP's first fiddle.  

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I guess it depends on how old is old, Strad posters go back to the 80’s.
Some were better than others, depending on who took the measurements.

With advances in technology, the more recent posters have a wealth of information, so it’s hard to think of a better reference for the money.

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100% agree.  I just received the LS "Benecke" poster and it's extremely comprehensive.  The thing is, it's tough to tell when you visit the site which posters will and which won't.  As OP wanted a Guarneri, I can confirm the Plowden poster, which is in stock, has the rib outline.  I'm relatively new, and not a disciple of Guarneri, so perhaps a more knowledgeable MN'er can recommend some other posters.  

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As others have mentioned, I would stay away from any pre-made store bought template that is currently available.  I would take Duane88's advice.  If you can find a poster, you can reverse engineer a mold outline from it.  I tape a poster or something similar to a big window and tape a piece of paper over that.  I trace the outline and then draw a line inside of the plate outline at a prescribed distance (overhang plus rib thickness).  I glue this to a piece of thin sheet metal (aluminum) and cut out on my bandsaw and finally file to the line.  I usually just do one side and I usually use the back to work from (less wear on the back).  Won't be exact but unless you are making an exact bench copy that won't matter.  This is a simplified explanation but you get the idea?  Maybe others that know much more than me will chime in with advice.

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I am making two violins (one is being finished now) from inside molds made from the Plowden Poster which had an outline of the back plate. The mensur on the Plowden is 191mm which presents a little problem. The Vieuxtemps' poster has a rib outline which could be used to make a mold. It has a mensur of 194 mm which is closer to the 195 mm target. I followed John Dilworth's method of making an inside mold from an existing violin in The Best Trade Secrets volume I. The exercise of making the mold was well worth it. There may be other del Jesu posters which can be used. I passed on the ready made molds and patterns as I had no confidence in their accuracy. With the Plowden poster as the source, where their was wear in the plate edge I followed the curve from the other side of the plate. 

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5 hours ago, duane88 said:

avoid those. they will not take you where you want to go. Also, creating the templates is a significant part of understanding how and why. 

lol I would but, my sensei has instructed me to find one such template. I will be using mainly the inside template for the body, because in order to make the top fit the ribs I need to use them plus the inside mould as the top and back template (and of course I will be making the mould from scratch). I went with the Kreissler model. We shall see.. He has been using his strad templates for eons lol so I assume he knows what he's doing (as an apprentice thats all I'm allowed to do XD) maybe once I have waxed all five of his cars then painted his fence and sanded his floors he would be open to suggestions...

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11 hours ago, chiaroscuro_violins said:

My first couple violins were based on older posters, and I definitely remember a mould outline being provided.

And yes, I'm familiar with how to work backwards, but it wouldn't be an ideal situation for OP's first fiddle.  

 Yes. A mold outline is what we should be discussing instead of trying to backwards engineer one.

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3 minutes ago, Bodacious Cowboy said:

I think it's only a problem for those with an unhealthy obsession with standardization :).

I would agree. It seems an unusual endeavour to copy something, but at the same time change several dimensions, thereby making it into something else.

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1 hour ago, sospiri said:

 Yes. A mold outline is what we should be discussing instead of trying to backwards engineer one.

I am actually being taught that way for more experience... I shall forward engineer in the future ;)

what I found on interntnl violin includes Fs, and scroll, and inside and outside templates. I will be using the mould plus the ribs for the top and back template :) 

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1 hour ago, Flattmountain said:

I am actually being taught that way for more experience... I shall forward engineer in the future ;)

what I found on interntnl violin includes Fs, and scroll, and inside and outside templates. I will be using the mould plus the ribs for the top and back template :) 

I took a look at their website. I'm not really sure what you have bought. The photo is very small.

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2 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

I would agree. It seems an unusual endeavour to copy something, but at the same time change several dimensions, thereby making it into something else.

I agree with that. My point was that there are other del Jesu violins to copy that have a longer stop length closer to the "normal" length. I was also told that the Plowden has a nut moved back hanging over the peg box slightly so that the 130mm nut to edge length is achieved. 

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