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Scientific investigations of Stradivarius violins--an updated review article


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https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/aluminum-dust-from-geoengineering-fueling-super-wildfires-according-to-author-1027513869

I do not know about "super fires" but I do know "geoengineering" is real, there are many searchable patents for both distribution methods as well as the compounds, and that AL is one of the main components in many of them.

So according to many "scientists" as they call them{not named in this article}, there is a massive increase in the amount of "nano" AL in the environment and that if there is a concern about some type of contamination there certainly is the possibility for it to be air born. I don't think "we" are talking about "AL" in it's metal form, however the fact that it is "nano" may or may not contribute to some  mis readings? 

I am not suggesting a high probability of sample contamination happening in this way, but there is plenty of factual information about AL being "dumped" in aerosol form in the atmosphere and gravity was still in play last I checked so it has to end up somewhere?

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1 hour ago, Bruce Tai said:

From the link above:

"Although Chenery (11) did not consider gymnosperms to be aluminum accumulators, Truman et al. (14) proposed that most Pinus species are facultative aluminum accumulators." 

Here is reference 14: 

Title-- Effect of varying solution ratios of Al to Ca and Mg on the uptake of phosphorus by Pinus radiata

Summary:-- "Pinus radiata (D. Don) seedlings were grown in nutrient solutions in which phosphorus levels varied from deficient to adequate. In the first experiment, Al was substituted for Ca over the range 0 to 0.4 meq/l and P was applied at two low levels (1 and 3 uM/l). In the second experiment, Al was substituted for Mg over the range 0 to 0.35meq/l and P was applied at three higher levels (8, 32 and 129 pM/l)...." 

When GeorgeH finally decides to discuss actual scientific facts instead of statistics gibberish, he fails to understand the difference between seedlings and mature wood tissues.

It is important to learn how to read scientific literature properly. It is not all that hard if you try.  

Perhaps if you investigated a bit farther, you'd learn that even mature pinus species in forests take up aluminum from the soil. So we know that both seedlings and mature trees can accumulate Al. 

The fact is that gymnosperms such as spruce trees are aluminum accumulators. I am surprised that you did not know this.

Given that fact from multiple sources, it is up to you to prove the aluminum present in your sample flakes is not naturally occurring from biological processes.

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3 hours ago, Bruce Tai said:

The attached file shows that the median concentration of Al in 23 wood chip samples. The median value is 14 ppm. These are very crude wood chips sold in bulk. Noticed the maximum values are often extraordinarily high, indicative of serious contamination. The conclusion of this study is that many commercial wood pellets sold in bulk have serious contamination issues.  

ef300884k.pdf 1.7 MB · 2 downloads

Contamination as in environmental pollution concern? For our lung health?

If so, this is far more important to the human race than fiddles.

But Maple specifically, can you demonstrate that 1000ppm is an artificially high number, not obtained naturally?

And if so, why would it be applied? As a woodworm deterrent?

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2 hours ago, Bruce Tai said:

From the link above:

"Although Chenery (11) did not consider gymnosperms to be aluminum accumulators, Truman et al. (14) proposed that most Pinus species are facultative aluminum accumulators." 

Here is reference 14: 

Title-- Effect of varying solution ratios of Al to Ca and Mg on the uptake of phosphorus by Pinus radiata

Summary:-- "Pinus radiata (D. Don) seedlings were grown in nutrient solutions in which phosphorus levels varied from deficient to adequate. In the first experiment, Al was substituted for Ca over the range 0 to 0.4 meq/l and P was applied at two low levels (1 and 3 uM/l). In the second experiment, Al was substituted for Mg over the range 0 to 0.35meq/l and P was applied at three higher levels (8, 32 and 129 pM/l)...." 

When GeorgeH finally decides to discuss actual scientific facts instead of statistics gibberish, he fails to understand the difference between seedlings and mature wood tissues.

It is important to learn how to read scientific literature properly. It is not all that hard if you try.  

 

Jim Bress will remind us that we should be discussing Picea, not Pinus. 

What is a normal Al count for  European Spruce and Maple?

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1 hour ago, jezzupe said:

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/aluminum-dust-from-geoengineering-fueling-super-wildfires-according-to-author-1027513869

I do not know about "super fires" but I do know "geoengineering" is real, there are many searchable patents for both distribution methods as well as the compounds, and that AL is one of the main components in many of them.

So according to many "scientists" as they call them{not named in this article}, there is a massive increase in the amount of "nano" AL in the environment and that if there is a concern about some type of contamination there certainly is the possibility for it to be air born. I don't think "we" are talking about "AL" in it's metal form, however the fact that it is "nano" may or may not contribute to some  mis readings? 

I am not suggesting a high probability of sample contamination happening in this way, but there is plenty of factual information about AL being "dumped" in aerosol form in the atmosphere and gravity was still in play last I checked so it has to end up somewhere?

This is the real potential killer in the air. Environmental pollution of all kinds. You showed us a paper from 2015, that I won't mention. I don't blame any faction. We are all producers and consumers. We are all responsible.

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3 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

Isn't aluminum phosphide a powerful insecticide, leaving behind a residue of aluminum hydroxide? Any possibilities there?

Is that your deodorant?

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7 hours ago, sospiri said:

 

What is a normal Al count for  European Spruce and Maple?

We measured 7 European spruce and 7 European maple, Al is less than 10 ppm in all cases. Three repeats each. 

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On 5/2/2021 at 7:39 PM, Bruce Tai said:

The idea that Amati, Stradivari, and Guarneri did not use natural spruce and maple to build violins is a scary concept. But it is true. Our manuscript is still under review. It may be published this summer.  

But I am sorry to say that modern science can only tell us very little about what happened to a piece of wood 300 years ago. Reverse engineering is impossible, not even close. 

So we know what Cremonese masters did not use but not what they really used. That creates a huge problem for violin makers. I am sorry about this. But we are getting closer to the forgotten truths about Cremonese violin making. What happened happened, no matter how it was kept so secretive. 

And these fantastic claims are based on a belief that the wood samples were treated with Alum solution?

Were these samples all from the area of the gluing surface?

And if so, could an Alum solution have been applied to the gluing surface before gluing?

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13 hours ago, sospiri said:

And these fantastic claims are based on a belief that the wood samples were treated with Alum solution?

Were these samples all from the area of the gluing surface?

And if so, could an Alum solution have been applied to the gluing surface before gluing?

Or in the glue itself. Alum added to hide glue was a known way to make it less solvable in water or a "waterproof" version of it, let alone if some one were to use it as a glue wash sizing as part of the varnish, although I'm quite sure we have determined that the Cremona guys did not use glue wash as part of their varnish scheme? or?

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20 minutes ago, jezzupe said:

Or in the glue itself. Alum added to hide glue was a known way to make it less solvable in water or a "waterproof" version of it, let alone if some one were to use it as a glue wash sizing as part of the varnish, although I'm quite sure we have determined that the Cremona guys did not use glue wash as part of their varnish scheme? or?

Yes, many sources claim 0.5 - 1% Alum in hide glue to protect the joint against humidity.

So it might be an hypothesis worth pursuing. Maybe either an alum wash before gluing or a thin alum/glue size before gluing?

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