Help identifying a cello, ? French, 20th C


Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

I think it is an attractive cello. I would not be offended if someone asked whether I got it in EBay. I bought a truck on EBay and I loved it till my wife made me sell it. Nothing wrong with buying on eBay if one is careful and observant.

But it wasn't an innocent question was it? I know exactly what was meant when the same member asked if was from "a collector". The EBay question was practically saying "you know nothing about cellos"

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 60
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

7 hours ago, ShadowStrad said:

Since the Chinese have stocked-up on European wood, you can't make the blanket claim that an instrument looks Chinese based on the grain figure of the wood like you could in the old days.

You might have noticed that the wood was one out of a dozen features leading to a conclusion.

2 hours ago, ShadowStrad said:

There are a few here who like to ridicule others.  Personally, I don't understand why the admin allows it but it's not my forum.  I like the cello you showed and as long as it sounds good, you did a good job in picking it.

Factually such instruments with these kind of faked brands are usually sold in Ebay. Wood butcher made also a reference to another thread discussing similar cellos which were offered by an alleged "collector". Maybe you missed this, but there wasn't an offence within this. It's just a warning adressed to others seeing such artefacts at such places, especially in Ebay. But I've seen them also been offered in "major" auctions, simply described as "a cello, 10 GBP" etc. This would be an ok price, Should we be better quiet and let others waste their money on fakes? So where's the offense or ridiculing?

It's not the first time that new posters are coming here to ask about instruments they bought from elsewhere, auctions or very often Ebay, and get disappointed when they get free informations here that their finds aren't neither what they believed it to be nor were bargains (usually overpaid). Out of disapointment they start to feel "offended" or being treated "rude" etc. etc. I rather feel that the offense is often on the other side.

Personally I see that the OP cello is made relative roughly, with irregular purfling at some points, ugly antiquing and an awkward arching, especially around the ff. Just they way it is being made in modern mass producing factories. I'm also doubting that anybody would buy this for a price of a "halfway decent chinese cello" at an auction without speculating on the obviously faked brand. Now you can all feel offended and ridiculed once again.

Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Blank face said:

Now you can all feel offended and ridiculed once again

If that was your aim you have succeeded. Point me to the bit where I thought I had a bargain or even genuinely thought the cello was an original and complete French cello. Or alternatively stop hiding behind anonymity and maybe show us some examples of your own work so we can judge the validity of your comments 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Brumcello said:

Point me to the bit where I thought I had a bargain or even genuinely thought the cello was an original and complete French cello.

This thread is named "French, 20th century". Otherwise I don't feel obliged to conform anymore to your requests or offenses.

Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Brumcello said:

If that was your aim you have succeeded. Point me to the bit where I thought I had a bargain or even genuinely thought the cello was an original and complete French cello. Or alternatively stop hiding behind anonymity and maybe show us some examples of your own work so we can judge the validity of your comments 

Anonymity is sometimes required for personal reasons on public places like this - your name doesn't look like real name either. If you want to judge posts of others on public fora you need to spend some time reading other similar topics and you would find that Blank face is very respected expert (not only around here) especially in identification of EU instruments... (some other trusted members know him personally).

I once posted my old violin for ID here to find out it is common German violin with fake label etc. I got plain direct honest answer just like you. And for free! I found the violin in attic so I was not disappointed by monetary value.

You got pretty detailed and reliable ID of your cello. I've been around her for a while and my immediate feeling was just what the guys here told you. (and I immediately knew that no attack was meant by the ebay/collector remarks)

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Brumcello said:

If that was your aim you have succeeded. Point me to the bit where I thought I had a bargain or even genuinely thought the cello was an original and complete French cello. Or alternatively stop hiding behind anonymity and maybe show us some examples of your own work so we can judge the validity of your comments 

I do not understand Brumcello, really do not understand. If you understand now about being wrong wrong about purchase, no one  here is quilty for that. It is quite new cello, probably it sounds better than average chinese, but I doubt. Just search for better instrument and ask questions before buying.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mathieu valde said:

I do not understand Brumcello, really do not understand. If you understand now about being wrong wrong about purchase, no one  here is quilty for that. It is quite new cello, probably it sounds better than average chinese, but I doubt. Just search for better instrument and ask questions before buying.

I'm sorry that you don't understand.  The question I asked was about identification.  I did not ask about value or whether I had made a wise purchase. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Brumcello said:

If that was your aim you have succeeded. Point me to the bit where I thought I had a bargain or even genuinely thought the cello was an original and complete French cello. Or alternatively stop hiding behind anonymity and maybe show us some examples of your own work so we can judge the validity of your comments 

Again, the admins do a very poor job of keeping this forum positive.  Like I said, if it were my forum I would punt whomever makes another person feel bad about a question they asked.  I would also like to see some of the instruments these critics have made themselves to see just how good they are.  By refusing to show them, they are admitting they don't have much to show for their efforts.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, ShadowStrad said:

Again, the admins do a very poor job of keeping this forum positive.  Like I said, if it were my forum I would punt whomever makes another person feel bad about a question they asked.  I would also like to see some of the instruments these critics have made themselves to see just how good they are.  By refusing to show them, they are admitting they don't have much to show for their efforts.

The “forum” does a pretty good job of squashing anyone who criticises the moderator:)

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, ShadowStrad said:

Again, the admins do a very poor job of keeping this forum positive.  Like I said, if it were my forum I would punt whomever makes another person feel bad about a question they asked.  I would also like to see some of the instruments these critics have made themselves to see just how good they are.  By refusing to show them, they are admitting they don't have much to show for their efforts.

To be fair I contacted the Admins about my experience and they were extremely sympathetic and helpful. Throughout my life I have discovered that people who make you feel small are generally unimpressive individuals who want to make themselves feel better. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Brumcello said:

If that was your aim you have succeeded. Point me to the bit where I thought I had a bargain or even genuinely thought the cello was an original and complete French cello. Or alternatively stop hiding behind anonymity and maybe show us some examples of your own work so we can judge the validity of your comments 

Now now, as an ex British citizen, I am always telling my new countrymen how thin skinned and easily offended they are compared to Brits. Apparently that's not true anymore. Its also pretty rich calling out folk for posting anonymously when you call yourself Brumcello. If you show a little humility and take the time, you will learn a lot here. If you stick around long enough you may even learn to be embarrassed by some of your hurt feelings in these early posts. In five years time you may begin to see why some of the folk who posted on this thread asked blunt, but not offensive, questions. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/15/2021 at 12:15 PM, Brumcello said:

A quick update one this cello. I took it to a local luthier (who trained in Switzerland so is very experienced in European instruments). He was fairly sure the cello is French and made about 1920. He was puzzled by the varnish which is only about 10 years old. He could see no obvious reason for it to have been re-varnished. He also thought the scroll was original. Anyway, he is going to fit a new bridge and sound-post and we will see what we end up with.

So it's all his fault. Everyone can just chill, we have someone else to blame.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, mathieu valde said:

It is a nice idea for writing certificates - European violin :D 

Perhaps not a simple as you might think. You will have to differentiate between European violins, and Continental European violins:)

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/19/2021 at 4:35 PM, ShadowStrad said:

1) Again, the admins do a very poor job of keeping this forum positive.  Like I said, if it were my forum I would punt whomever makes another person feel bad about a question they asked. 

2) I would also like to see some of the instruments these critics have made themselves to see just how good they are.  By refusing to show them, they are admitting they don't have much to show for their efforts.

1) Might try starting your own forum and tell me how that goes after 20 years of doing it your way.  :)  You're certainly not the first to critique my approach... and I admit, a hard hand sounds like a simple solution, but that reality thing tends to interfere with "simple" and you'll probably find you'd need to spend much more time than you're willing to spend on the site to be an effective policeman (which I honestly have no desire to be).  I think your approach might have more of chance if more than one moderator were present...  Good cop/bad cop as they say in the states.  BTW; I do not "own" this site or forum.  I have only volunteered as the moderator for a couple decades. Other than a brief point in history when Michael Darnton was a co-moderator, no one has stepped up to help.

2) I believe I know most of the pros here personally or by reputation... and often know their work.  For those using anonymous "handles", I would tend to agree.

On 4/19/2021 at 4:42 PM, jacobsaunders said:

The “forum” does a pretty good job of squashing anyone who criticises the moderator:)

Thank goodness. :) 

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, ShadowStrad said:

Herding cats?  There are some that are so blatant there's no herding involved.  You just boot them with a few keystrokes.  

...and that is why we are honored to have Jeffrey as our moderator.  A light touch and  a degree of self policing make this a pretty decent place to dwell. I would rather put up with the odd expletive lobbed in my direction, rather than have a moderator who marches round in digital Jackboots.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/19/2021 at 10:35 PM, ShadowStrad said:

Again, the admins do a very poor job of keeping this forum positive.  Like I said, if it were my forum I would punt whomever makes another person feel bad about a question they asked.  I would also like to see some of the instruments these critics have made themselves to see just how good they are.  By refusing to show them, they are admitting they don't have much to show for their efforts.

By offering ideas about how to improve the Forum's behaviour and it's moderation one should consider that pointing out others with one finger means pointing with three backwards to oneself. Also a meditation about all possible meanings of "making others feel bad" would be highly recommended.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Brumcello, this is exactly what one should not do on public fora. Posting publicly soeone's messages is REALLY BAD habits. Their messages are just one view estimate by looking at phone pics with no guarantee.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, HoGo said:

Brumcello, this is exactly what one should not do on public fora. Posting publicly soeone's messages is REALLY BAD habits. Their messages are just one view estimate by looking at phone pics with no guarantee.

I'm sorry, I didn't know how else to get the information across. When I posted the comments of a luthier without his name I received sarcastic replies so thought opinions of experts at 2 large auction houses might be of interest to readers of the forum.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are looking for an insurance valuation or some kind of additional information on what it could be, then it might be worth taking a trip in to London to see one of the afformentioned auctions houses and get them to look at it in person.

Some auction houses can give you a written insurance valuation for maybe something like £150. This is not a certificate, but you can use it to make sure you get the correct insurance cover for your instrument.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.