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Italian cellos_ Eugenio, Farotto


myrthe
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Hello,

I am considering buying one of these three cellos.(I hope this time I could have found the right ones!)

But could you please tell if these cellos are genuine Italian ones?

(I found some information about the makers of the first and second cellos (if they are genuine), but for the third modern cello, I could not find any information about the maker.)

And if they are genuine, which cello would you recommend?

Thank you.

 

 

 

 

 

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You seem to be looking at cellos in a price range that would allow you to buy something directly from a living maker with a good reputation - I'm not sure whether that appeals to you, but you'd be certain of the provenance (and you'd be supporting a living artist rather than a con artist)...

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Thank you for your kind comments.

I hope these pictures would give useful information for your judgements.

Yes, I am looking for a good instrument at an affordable price.

These cellos belong to an individual collector, who obtained these cellos from Italy.

I trust the collector, but yes, there are so many fake instruments. And even the collector could have obtained these instruments without knowing that they were not genuine

That's why I ask for your valuable advice.

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How much does the collector want for these cellos?

The pictures are blurry, so there is nothing definitive about what I'm writing here. To me, all they look relatively new. The fingerboards look strikingly similar at the bridge end and unused and of the same type of almost-but-just-not-black ebony (or ebony-like wood), the nuts look similar, the finishing of the protruding end of the pegs (which all look brand new and of a cheaper type) looks similar and not very stylish, none of them seem to have any wear... I wouldn't be surprised if they all came from Romania and were made within the last 25 years or so. I would not attach any value to the labels. If the price is appropriate, I don't see why one wouldn't buy these (provided there is no damage through badly set sound posts or so), but if you want something that is professional (without better pictures and without having played them, so with some reserve) I would say you should be looking elsewhere.

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All 3 scrolls look the same from the front. A Degani scroll looks distinctly different, the peg box edges would be more rounded. Also Degani used a different looking varnish. All three look like newly made instruments. You may not be aware that a genuine Degani cello would at least be worth €30000, Tarisio sold one for almost €100000 in 2019.

https://tarisio.com/cozio-archive/price-history/?Maker_ID=156

 

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Just to agree with the consensus ...

Hope springs eternal, but these are modern student cellos.

I don't believe this is a trustworthy source.

If the owner doesn't know they aren't genuine then they shouldn't be selling instruments.

If the owner knows they aren't genuine but hasn't been explicit about it then they shouldn't be selling instruments.

Either way, go somewhere else ....!

 

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I often wonder if these type of threads aren’t just a wind-up. Anyone actually looking for an Italian cello, by a well known maker such as Degani must understand the kind of sum these instruments go for.

The idea that you would then consider buying one from “a collector” is laughable. If you look at the backgrounds in the photos, that alone tells you all you need to know.

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Dear Experts,

Thank you for your time and remarks.

I do not want to distrust others.

But concerning these instruments, there seems to be a great temptation to make an unjustifiable profit. And actually it happened so often in the places which are far away from the countries where good instruments are made (..).

I do not want to distrust the "collector," but I am very sorry that he got those instruments without knowing the truth. 

Thank you again. 

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On 4/11/2021 at 3:55 PM, Wood Butcher said:

I often wonder if these type of threads aren’t just a wind-up. Anyone actually looking for an Italian cello, by a well known maker such as Degani must understand the kind of sum these instruments go for.

The idea that you would then consider buying one from “a collector” is laughable. If you look at the backgrounds in the photos, that alone tells you all you need to know.

I disagree. I know collectors who have lots of instruments and sell the odd one. Such people will not sell a Degani for €2000 but potentially cheaper than elsewhere. There are many reasons to sell. One is because someone passed away, another simply to get cash.  Just do it like mushroom collection, only buy what I know :).

We also don't know what these cellos were supposed to cost. There is nothing wrong to buy a well-built unknown maker's instrument for €1500. These instruments look decent on a first glance. If one doesn't take them as collectibles but rather as consumables at a low cost - where is the problem?

 

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10 minutes ago, uguntde said:

I disagree. I know collectors who have lots of instruments and sell the odd one. Such people will not sell a Degani for €2000 but potentially cheaper than elsewhere. There are many reasons to sell. One is because someone passed away, another simply to get cash.  Just do it like mushroom collection, only buy what I know :).

We also don't know what these cellos were supposed to cost. There is nothing wrong to buy a well-built unknown maker's instrument for €1500. These instruments look decent on a first glance. If one doesn't take them as collectibles but rather as consumables at a low cost - where is the problem?

 

One regularly has to listen to far fetched narratives about some “collector”. After decades in the trade, I have still never met anybody who “collects” crap

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13 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

One regularly has to listen to far fetched narratives about some “collector”. After decades in the trade, I have still never met anybody who “collects” crap

What about the "usual rubbish?" There are people here who do collect that.

And there are eBay sellers who appear to have an endless supply of hideous broken dutzenware, and who also seem to have an endless supply of buyers.

I did meet a guy once who had a hoard of 70 unplayable and economically un-restorable violins. He was happy. His wife wasn't.

At least violins don't need litter boxes.

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14 hours ago, HoGo said:

Quite possibly the pics were taken right at the gate of the chinese workshop that produced these fakes - notice the chinese symbols all around the place....

The script is Hangul, the Korean alphabet. Not Chinese symbols.

Doesn't change anything about the cellos of course. Original poster - please don't waste any money on cellos from private individuals. You don't know what you are doing, and in the desire to get a "deal" you will waste 100% of your money (well, maybe 95% of it). 

If you are located in Korea, best to go to the biggest most well known shops in the 2 biggest cities and get something in your budget.  You will have a much lower chance of being scammed.

I live in East Asia too and it's the Wild West over here. I met a young adult who had earlier purchased a JTL bow (one of those stamped Buthold) from an individual (let's just say a collector :D) for over 10,000 Eur and was told it was from the "Lamy workshop." They didn't know any better. 

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