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Another Violin Identification :-)


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10 minutes ago, avandesande said:

I think someone should add some "Albus Dumbledore" labels to violins and put them on Ebay just for fun.

Oh!  Great idea!!! I would love to see reactions to that! :lol:

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The transport file from a Klingenthal wholesaler 1839 marks a certain category of their instruments as "Tyroler", possibly those with a higher arching. Such trade terms might have caused the idea and perception untill to the present days that such violins were made in the real Tyrol in Austria, though they are factually from the Vogtland.

Preisliste Klingenthal 001.jpg

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It doesn't.

The first thing now would be to find out if your violin was made the Markneukirchen way, or more the Mittenwald/South German/Viennese with inside mould, following the instruction given in this thread. Maybe all your questions will be answered after doing so.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/16/2021 at 12:15 PM, AlexanderWinkler said:

Capture.thumb.JPG.38c2fc6ba627373984b4d1dab2ff5c60.JPG

I did thinked that my violin looked much like this J G THir violin.

They look pretty different to me. The scroll on yours is rounder, the chin at the bottom is much less pronounced and the general shape of the pegbox is different. Are you sure about the neck graft being real? Do you see a joint that makes sense inside the pegbox?

In general, I think it is a good idea to start by ruling out the basic stuff, like Blank face suggested, instead of trying to connect it to a specific maker. Everybody wants their violin to be something nice, and that will waaay too often lead to confirmation bias. And listen to experts like Jacob and Blank face.

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7 hours ago, AlexanderWinkler said:

Why not? It look almost perfect match. What is reason?

Because the construction of the ribs isn't in congruence with Viennese violins - they used an inside mould, while yours looks like built on the back, what's detectebable at the flat pinched rib joints. Maybe I'm looking wrong, so please read through the linked thread or compare here (Mittenwald is the same construction and shares many features withthe Viennese) to find out:

 

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I have gone through the said thread, to figure out about the construction. It seems that it does not fit either of them 100%.

Once i took the violin to a local expert who said that it could be french and that he would atriute it to Lui Guersan, i bluntly dissmised him because i had my eyes on it being germanic. 

What do you guys think, pls dont grill me too much, if im wrong.:)

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42 minutes ago, AlexanderWinkler said:

I have gone through the said thread, to figure out about the construction. It seems that it does not fit either of them 100%.

In your opinion, which one does it fit the most?

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You could try to find out if the ribs are let into a groove in the back. Is there a sort of arch carved into the inside pegbox north? Are the corner blocks longer in the C bouts or the ends of the linings glued over this blocks? All this features could point to France. Unfortunately your photos aren't of such a resolution that it's possible to see anything of it.

Otherwise a Dendro* (f.e. by MN member Peter Ratcliff) could help to decide if it's even possible to be made before 1800.

*Jacob possibly won't like the idea;)

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Posted (edited)

Well...

It looks like the ribs might be let in but, that is something that i can neiterher confirm nor deny, right now. 

As to the cornerblocks, it seems that they are longer on the sides that point away fromt the c-bouts, quite a bit longer on the away pointing side, so i know that that does not speak for it being french but rather south germanic-austrian.

What do folks think?

 

 I have gone through the entire thread agin just to re-examine.

Scroll

My violin has fluting that goes all the way to the back of the throat like the south germanic. And i am not sure what a pronounced back of the head is but i think my violin has it.

Rib construction

The rib corner joint on my violins is made on the inward facing edge, like the south germanic violins, as oposed to the Klingenthal violins where the joint is in the midle. The bottom rib is not in one piece. The linings and corners are pine. But the corners on my violin are sharp like the Klingenthal. My violins corner blocks cover about twice as much upper/lower rib as c bout rib, like the SOuth germanic, the linings are morticed by the way. The purfling corners on my violin point up and down like the mittenwald - austria, where as the Kligenthal many times will point horizontally outwards.

Plates

The bass bar and neck graft has been replaced in 1983 by the Copenhagen violin builder Karl Heinel, i have the recipt for this repair. So i would guess that id did not have an integral bass bar, but they could have carved out the origional integral bass bar, but i dont know. The thicness of the middle of the top plate mesures 3.2 milimitters, so i guess that is thicc. The purfling on my violin is 2/3s of the plate deep, (visible at a semi-broken corner) the purfling is dyed all the way through.

 

Allthogether i think it is more south german or austiran or something like that, but then again pleas dot grill me at too high a tempature, if i am wrong. 

thanks for the help :)

Edited by AlexanderWinkler
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  • 2 weeks later...

I think that sometimes when we look at clouds we see sheep, and that I wouldn't get too caught up in trying to attribute an un-attributed violin. It's nice when we can know everything that could be known about a violin and it's history, and generally when we do it's because it has high value based on it's providence, but there are many violins that got dropped through the chimney by the Stork that we'll never really know the history of, and that sometimes region may be the only thing your going to get any opinion on and that as long as you like to play it that sometimes that's all you need to know 

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  • 2 months later...

Hello again everyone, i have looked more into the saxon/bohemian option on this violin, and wanted to know what you thought about this example below, as compare to my violin, does the saxon/bohemian fit better that the tyrolean? Thanks for all the help.
Albani_f.jpgAlbani_b.jpgAlbani_s.jpg

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