Bow end grain runout

[dpappas]

I am bow shopping and one of my two top pics may have end grain runout.  I’m attaching photos that I hope show the grain.  Is this a concern? 
 

the are both Arcos Brazil.  The more expensive one has the dubious grain. 
 

thanks!

 

[duane88]

if it didn't break in the bending process, you're probably OK.

[Jeff White]

I agree with Duane, not that it's ideal, but I would judge a newer Brazilian bow on your "like/dislike" first and foremost.

[Mike_Danielson]

Do we have any idea where the wood comes from since it is in short supply?  I suspect it is from old stumps, railroad ties, fence posts, buildings, etc.  Non-ideal sources when you prefer the wood to be split from the log so you can get straight grain.

If it survives the bending process, it will probably be OK.  Bows are used in an elastic mode; so, they will not be stressed unless an accident occurs (like a kid using it in a sword fight or sitting on it or making a TSA agent angry).

regards

Mike D

[martin swan]

5 hours ago, Mike_Danielson said:

Do we have any idea where the wood comes from since it is in short supply?  I suspect it is from old stumps, railroad ties, fence posts, buildings, etc.  Non-ideal sources when you prefer the wood to be split from the log so you can get straight grain.

 

It comes from sustainable plantation programmes. Probably more consistent in quality than most of the old growth wood used by previous generations.

http://www.arcosbrasil.com/

[fiddlecollector]

6 hours ago, Mike_Danielson said:

Non-ideal sources when you prefer the wood to be split from the log so you can get straight grain.

Ive never seen anyone splitting pernambuco logs ,they are usually sawn.

[David Burgess]

1 hour ago, martin swan said:

It comes from sustainable plantation programmes. Probably more consistent in quality than most of the old growth wood used by previous generations.

http://www.arcosbrasil.com/

Martin, I don't think there is sustainable harvesting of pernambuco, yet. The planting efforts are too recent to have produced mature trees.

Regarding their planting, the ArcosBrasil site says: "Long term is the key; the fruits of our efforts will only show results many decades in the future". 

You may already be familiar with the efforts of the IPCI.  http://www.ipci-usa.org/programs.html

[fiddlecollector]

They are using as Mike says above , old fence posts, railway ties ,etc........

[David Burgess]

Or if they are using recent trees, they're not talking about it.

There has been a lot of clear-cutting for cattle ranching (beef is one of Brazil's major exports), and maybe they are able to get their hands on some of these trees before they are burned or otherwise disposed of.

[dpappas]

I suspect that David is right, that they are using recently-cut trees from other industries, while also planting new ones for a longer-term investment in the supply (and ecological impact).

[martin swan]

Old fenceposts and sleepers are incredibly uneconomic to mill, since they are full of metal. New blades and downtime are the bane of any sawmill, massively increasing the cost of milling. In fact milling reclaimed and fully seasoned timber is a nightmare from all points of view.

I fear this is a story the current Brazilian makers put out to assuage the buyer's conscience.

[David Burgess]

1 hour ago, martin swan said:

Old fenceposts and sleepers are incredibly uneconomic to mill, since they are full of metal. New blades and downtime are the bane of any sawmill, massively increasing the cost of milling. In fact milling reclaimed and fully seasoned timber is a nightmare from all points of view.

I fear this is a story the current Brazilian makers put out to assuage the buyer's conscience.

I suspect so too. I'll add that wood which has been buried in dirt or crushed rock will also contain substances, other than metal, which will trash saw blades and milling blades in a hurry.

[David Burgess]

27 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

Repeat post, now removed.

 

[duane88]

I believe that Marco Raposo has been passionate about trying to use recycled wood. I don't think that Arcos does that, but Vito does post here on occasion, so he could be asked about that. Arcos is more into planting sustainable harvest products for the future.

[David Burgess]

30 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

Oops, another repeat post, also now removed.

 

[martin swan]

6 hours ago, duane88 said:

I believe that Marco Raposo has been passionate about trying to use recycled wood. I don't think that Arcos does that, but Vito does post here on occasion, so he could be asked about that. Arcos is more into planting sustainable harvest products for the future.

Not to be disputatious, but from Marco Raposo's own website : 

We only use mature Pernambuco trees, that are over thirty years old. Once a tree is selected, the heartwood is extracted from the core. The wood must have straight veins and be free of knots in order to be used for bows.

[PhilipKT]

As an aside, I have found Marco Raposo bows to be fine playing bows and prefer them to Arcos Brazil bows.

[HoGo]

They write this on their web...

Quote

The vast majority of well over 200 thousand seedlings grown at our nursery were allocated for planting in areas where cutting is prohibited by law. More than 20,000 trees have already matured in our own private land.

I wonder what they consider mature, but in rainforest many trees grow quite fast and you can get suitable sizes for thin long bowsticks in few decades.

[Brad Dorsey]

According to a 2004 article in "Smithsonian" magazine, planted pernambuco trees can produce "usable wood" after about 30 years.

[duane88]

17 hours ago, martin swan said:

Not to be disputatious, but from Marco Raposo's own website : 

We only use mature Pernambuco trees, that are over thirty years old. Once a tree is selected, the heartwood is extracted from the core. The wood must have straight veins and be free of knots in order to be used for bows.

Oh well, sales pitch and reality...I will have to ask Marco about this and that in the future times when he comes by the shop again.