Where to Buy Digital Versions of Suzuki Violin School 1–10 by Shinichi Suzuki?

[Carl Stross]

On 4/12/2021 at 6:54 PM, violinnewb said:

I always tell the parents of my students that: 1) I am not here to make your child the next Hilary Hahn,

That's commendable. Parents should always aim a bit lower :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwOWu6ZMdKM

[tchaikovsgay]

8 hours ago, violinnewb said:

Hi!  From the many posts you have authored, I take it that you are much younger than me.  If you are starting out as a new teacher for young students, I do in fact support your decision of using Suzuki.  As you know by now, many of us either disagree with the Suzuki method in one aspect or another.  From experience, I will tell you that if you are teaching students under the age of 10 years, you have to remember attention span.  I know that there are exceptions, but most need nurturing of the art itself more so than the technique behind the art...at least at the beginning.  

To comment directly on your recent comment, some of the earlier books, like book 2 for example, teach a very simplified technique for a more interesting and technical piece.  Take the Boccherini Minuet.  The recordings and book suggest the eighth and sixteenth notes to be played staccato.  I teach spiccato, at the very basic level, pretty early on.  So when my students are ready to play that song, they play those passages off the string.  I also have them return to book one and play the Happy Farmer with a leggerio/spiccato stroke.  You will find that in a lot of these arrangements.  The point being, the Suzuki books are pretty good for a centralized compilation of repertoire that you can supplement with scales and etudes, go back and polish up for a second learning. 

 

Good luck! 

Thanks. Yes I've taught part-time when I was doing my bachelor's, but never full time. Also I really thought the Gossec from Book 1 was supposed to be played spiccato until I heard the recording; that's why I thought I have to get the revised editions to know what Suzuki truly meant. However, upon mastering the piece I agree we can ask students to try different bow strokes on the same piece.

[tchaikovsgay]

On 4/8/2021 at 9:03 PM, uncle duke said:

after reading a few pages of suzuki 1 i'm thinking to myself that i'm glad i had old school teachers along with their methods of teaching - non- suzuki style.

one question though - was it difficult to comprehend what a major scale is while learning through the lowered numbered suzuki books or was it a easy, learnable lesson/chapter when gotten to? 

I never was taught Suzuki so I don't really know. I was taught with Shinozaki method and scales. (Which is not thorough enough)

[PhilipKT]

2 hours ago, Carl Stross said:

That's commendable. Parents should always aim a bit lower :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwOWu6ZMdKM

 

Boy I had no idea that Ysaye looked so much like Isaac stern.

I enjoyed that clip very much, even though I’m not sure that Ysaye would have played something by his staunch competitor Sarasate, haha

[PhilipKT]

16 hours ago, tchaikovsgay said:

found out apparently Suzuki uses the term "staccato bow stroke" for détaché on staccato notes. From the books I've read staccato is a polysemic term; it can mean an articulation (staccato notes) or a bow stroke (a sequence of martelé in the same bow direction). I wonder if this will make the student more confused.

The bow creates sound using a ratio of length to weight. Every articulation is shorter or longer, lighter or heavier, as the music requires. I have never learned the terms at all. I’m not being rebellious, I’ve just never needed to learn them. 
“Play short and light.”

”Play short and heavy.”

”Play shorter and heavier.”(emphasis on length.)

“Play heavier and shorter.”(emphasis on weight.)

And so on. And because the kid understands the concept of the speed/weight ratio, it’s easy to make the desired articulation. In orchestra, the conductor says “short/long/heavy/light.” And we give him what he wants without selecting a term from the glossary.

And when we play the Bartered Bride Overture, or Marriage of Figaro, the conductor screams,”TOGETHER.” And everyone plays together.

You can save a lot of time by teaching short/heavy and the ratio concept and leaving the terms for later. Ratios are extremely easy to demonstrate and comprehend, and are the best starting point. No need to worry about teaching the kid Sautille yet.

[Stephen Fine]

14 hours ago, tchaikovsgay said:

Thanks. Yes I've taught part-time when I was doing my bachelor's, but never full time. Also I really thought the Gossec from Book 1 was supposed to be played spiccato until I heard the recording; that's why I thought I have to get the revised editions to know what Suzuki truly meant. However, upon mastering the piece I agree we can ask students to try different bow strokes on the same piece.

My teacher, even when I was in Book 1, performed that Gossec Gavotte spiccato.  Of course, when it came time for 6 year old me to play it, I was taught staccato.

In a group lesson, depending on tempo, she might play it spiccato or staccato.

Bouncing bow strokes are nearly miraculous to a beginner.  I was very impressed by my teacher's bow technique.

[GeorgeH]

America has a rich tradition of violin and fiddle music, including folk (e.g. bluegrass, old-time, Cajun), jazz, blues, etc. This music is as technically challenging and useful for studying and advancing technique as anything in the Suzuki repertoire.

The Suzuki method only uses a narrow slice of European and Japanese music, and denies American students the opportunity to study and absorb their own rich musical heritage.

[uncle duke]

14 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

And when we play the Bartered Bride Overture, or Marriage of Figaro, the conductor screams,”TOGETHER.” And everyone plays together.

Are you able to get any ten and eleven year old students to read the sheet music to those two examples above fluently?

[Stephen Fine]

39 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:

America has a rich tradition of violin and fiddle music, including folk (e.g. bluegrass, old-time, Cajun), jazz, blues, etc. This music is as technically challenging and useful for studying and advancing technique as anything in the Suzuki repertoire.

The Suzuki method only uses a narrow slice of European and Japanese music, and denies American students the opportunity to study and absorb their own rich musical heritage.

I've started a new student recently on the O'Connor Method.

He obviously has business reasons for his criticisms of Suzuki along the lines you mention, but I just bought the O'Connor Violin Method Book 5 and it is truly excellent.  Fun advanced transcriptions of fiddle music from various American styles.

As far as I'm concerned though, there isn't much pedagogical difference between methods.  They all require a good teacher in order to achieve results.

[Rue]

I thought O'Connor had been "cancelled"?

[PhilipKT]

16 minutes ago, Rue said:

I thought O'Connor had been "cancelled"?

I don’t know what that means, can you provide some details?

[Carl Stross]

2 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

America has a rich tradition of violin and fiddle music, including folk (e.g. bluegrass, old-time, Cajun), jazz, blues, etc. This music is as technically challenging and useful for studying and advancing technique as anything in the Suzuki repertoire.

The Suzuki method only uses a narrow slice of European and Japanese music, and denies American students the opportunity to study and absorb their own rich musical heritage.

Yep. As Suzuki seems to be targeting grass root levels for the most part it follows you have made an excellent point. 

[Carl Stross]

16 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

The bow creates sound using a ratio of length to weight. Every articulation is shorter or longer, lighter or heavier, as the music requires. I have never learned the terms at all. I’m not being rebellious, I’ve just never needed to learn them. 
“Play short and light.”

”Play short and heavy.”

”Play shorter and heavier.”(emphasis on length.)

“Play heavier and shorter.”(emphasis on weight.)

And so on. And because the kid understands the concept of the speed/weight ratio, it’s easy to make the desired articulation. In orchestra, the conductor says “short/long/heavy/light.” And we give him what he wants without selecting a term from the glossary.

And when we play the Bartered Bride Overture, or Marriage of Figaro, the conductor screams,”TOGETHER.” And everyone plays together.

You can save a lot of time by teaching short/heavy and the ratio concept and leaving the terms for later. Ratios are extremely easy to demonstrate and comprehend, and are the best starting point. No need to worry about teaching the kid Sautille yet.

This is very smart. A wonderful idea. I noticed many times that on violin certain bow strokes are rendered by the player in a book-way manner i.e. too short allow the development of tone quality ( PER EACH NOTE ) and pitch. In Hora Stacc. a good staccato should sound like bearing balls not like a succession of twigs being broken.  I like how your idea causes the pupil to develop a mental reference : Pavarotti like to say ( and often... ) that to sing like Pavarotti you need to hear like Pavarotti. The rest being just work and memory. 

[Carl Stross]

1 hour ago, Rue said:

I thought O'Connor had been "cancelled"?

He must be doing something right then....   

[Rue]

7 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

I don’t know what that means, can you provide some details?

In this instance, I think everyone should Google on their own, and come to their own conclusions.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Rue
...typo...

[PhilipKT]

1 hour ago, Rue said:

In thus instance, I think everyone should Google on their own, and come to their own conclusions.

Well, I had no idea what to google, so I just googled Mark O’Connor, and got a whole Lotta stuff about Mark O’Connor, but it’s OK

[tchaikovsgay]

On 4/14/2021 at 10:34 PM, PhilipKT said:

Well, I had no idea what to google, so I just googled Mark O’Connor, and got a whole Lotta stuff about Mark O’Connor, but it’s OK

https://www.violinist.com/blog/laurie/201411/16338/

https://www.violinist.com/discussion/archive/26255/

I've found it. That's very interesting. Never expected pedagogues to hate each other. I wonder if composers also develop enemies too. I thought music is supposed to be fun.

[Violadamore]

On 4/8/2021 at 9:37 PM, PhilipKT said:

Suzuki had a brilliant insight.................

Didn't P.T. Barnum have it first?     

[Carl Stross]

3 hours ago, tchaikovsgay said:

Never expected pedagogues to hate each other. I wonder if composers also develop enemies too. I thought music is supposed to be fun.

Only conductors hate each other more than instrumental music pedagogues. Composers are similar - two rungs under. Critics are right under the "pedagogues".

What do you mean by "I thought music is supposed to be fun"  ? 

That's a genuine, honest question not a rhetorical one. I would genuinely appreciate if you would be so kind and explain what do you mean by "I" , "thought" , "music" , "supposed" and "fun".  

[Potter]

Just a couple of thoughts from a parent....

My daughter's first teacher taught using the Suzuki books. But by Book 3 or 4 was adding in etudes and scales and the occasional outside piece. This worked well for my daughter. Skipped book 8 and learned Mozart 3 and 5, which are the last 2 books. If Suzuki could have got publishing rights for Kreisler and others, the last 3 or 4 books would have been different. So the choices seem random and not pedagogical.  I think HH started in Suzuki? Anyway, she is 12 and polishing her 3rd Movt. of Bruch, playing a decent Zigeunerweisen and learning her first Paganinni. And knows all her scales, arpeggios, etc.....

I did find that when we attended Suzuki camp I found the "culture" odd. Lots of stories about sitting at the feet of the master. It reminded me of the romantization of Japanese culture in my own field. And I am glad my daughter was not part of a larger studio with all the group playing. But my daughter enjoyed it at camp.

Like any belief system, including religion, there are those who disbelieve and disregard a system, those who pick and choose what's useful from the system. Those who need the order and regimentation of absolute belief to manage life. And those who fly planes into buildings.  

 

[Potter]

Julia Fischer, HH, Joshua Bell, Sarah Chang, Anne Akiko-Meyers, Brian Lewis,

Leila Josefowicz, Ray Chen, Martin Chalifour, Jennifer Koh are just a quick google

result for "started violin with Suzuki method".

 

[violinnewb]

4 hours ago, Potter said:

My daughter's first teacher taught using the Suzuki books. But by Book 3 or 4 was adding in etudes and scales and the occasional outside piece. This worked well for my daughter. Skipped book 8 and learned Mozart 3 and 5, which are the last 2 books. If Suzuki could have got publishing rights for Kreisler and others, the last 3 or 4 books would have been different. So the choices seem random and not pedagogical.  I think HH started in Suzuki? Anyway, she is 12 and polishing her 3rd Movt. of Bruch, playing a decent Zigeunerweisen and learning her first Paganinni. And knows all her scales, arpeggios, etc.....

That was pretty much my experience and the experience that I offer my students.  Two octave scales at Book 3 with a shifting exercise book.  Etudes at Book 4. A few Kreisler pieces and a handful of fiddle tunes (banjo and fiddle, orange blossom special, boil them cabbage down) towards the end of Book 4/beginning of Book 5.  Accolay A minor Cto at Book 6.  First mvt of Lalo and first mvt of Bruch at Book 7.  Pretty much just sight read Book 8.  

It is often not the method that is the problem, its the teacher.

[Carl Stross]

5 hours ago, Potter said:

My daughter's first teacher taught using the Suzuki books. But by Book 3 or 4 was adding in etudes and scales and the occasional outside piece. This worked well for my daughter.

That does not mean a thing. Maybe your daughter is really talented. Sounds to me like she is.  Talented pupils will do well with most anything. The real question is how well a method works for an average and mildly indifferent pupil with an average and mildly indifferent teacher. 

[Carl Stross]

5 hours ago, Potter said:

Julia Fischer, HH, Joshua Bell, Sarah Chang, Anne Akiko-Meyers, Brian Lewis,

Leila Josefowicz, Ray Chen, Martin Chalifour, Jennifer Koh are just a quick google

result for "started violin with Suzuki method".

 

Means NOTHING.  

[Carl Stross]

52 minutes ago, violinnewb said:

That was pretty much my experience and the experience that I offer my students.  Two octave scales at Book 3 with a shifting exercise book.  Etudes at Book 4. A few Kreisler pieces and a handful of fiddle tunes (banjo and fiddle, orange blossom special, boil them cabbage down) towards the end of Book 4/beginning of Book 5.  Accolay A minor Cto at Book 6.  First mvt of Lalo and first mvt of Bruch at Book 7.  Pretty much just sight read Book 8.  

It is often not the method that is the problem, its the teacher.

Excellent. Could you then articulate what the "Suzuki method" consists of ?