VIOLIN FROM 1740 BY JOHANN SEIZ, MITTENWALD.

[Josh T]

Hiya, 

Does anyone possibly know more about the maker Johann Seiz whom produced this violin in 1740, currently up for sale by Cohen violins? 

https://cohenviolins.com/collections/10-000-19-999/products/a-rare-baroque-violin-from-1740-by-johann-seiz-mittenwald

I did some searching but haven't found any particular information about him. 

Any insight would be much appreciated. 

Thank you 

[Delabo]

Hi , welcome.

As an expert has not commented on this violin yet I will jump in and see if we can get their attention.

First things first. The label is the last thing you look at to identify a violin. So even though it is being sold by a respected shop, if it were me I would disregard it. Also, the pictures alone are not good enough to identify the violins origin. Using the pictures as they stand the violin does not appear to me to be Mittenwald, but I am not an expert and it would be good to get their opinion.

[jacobsaunders]

Seitz, sometimes spelt Seiz was quite a dynasty of Mittenwald makers, all the way down to the 20thC. Since practically the whole village made violins in the 18^th C., and they were all related to each other/worked for each other, it is a fools errand, trying to recognise the individuals involved, and one is forced to rely on an authentic looking label. Unfortunately the advert doesn’t show a picture of the label. I believe one can see that it is from Mittenwald. I repaired one some years ago, which is now owned by a gentleman in Hungary, to his satisfaction. The first thing I would do with it, would be to remove the doorstep of a fingerboard, and I wonder where they get their specifications from

You should put “Seiz” into the search function (top right of the page) if you haven’t found any reading stuff about it

[Blank face]

I wanted to hear Jacob's opinion on this before leaving a comment. Of course the thing looks Mittenwaldish to me, though I wold question if the scroll belongs to the body, and more the alleged date of making. Neither in my dictionaries nor the Mittenwald museum's website a Johann Seitz is listed, only a Johannes from the period around 1800, so it's possible they just misread the year? So the attribution would need further confirmation by one of the experienced experts in the field of Mittenwald making, or one might call it just Mittenwald 18th century.

The fingerboard seems to date from the times when they thought a "baroque" fingerboard needs to be as unhandy as even possible.

[Blank face]

When we are on it, I would recommend everybody being interested in the matter to download and study the PDF essays by Wolgang Zunterer from the museums website here (in English) about early Mittenwald making  http://www.geigenbaumuseum-mittenwald.de/index.php?id=72&L=2

One thing to learn there is that the majority of the early Mittenwald makers were trained by the sons of Mathias Kloz in the mid of the 18th century, so that it's very rare und unlikely to find many instruments dating before this period.

[dand]

51 minutes ago, Blank face said:

When we are on it, I would recommend everybody being interested in the matter to download and study the PDF essays by Wolgang Zunterer from the museums website here (in English) about early Mittenwald making  http://www.geigenbaumuseum-mittenwald.de/index.php?id=72&L=2

One thing to learn there is that the majority of the early Mittenwald makers were trained by the sons of Mathias Kloz in the mid of the 18th century, so that it's very rare und unlikely to find many instruments dating before this period.

thanks for the info and the link... i always enjoy following the threads containing German attributions and history surrounding them.

[Josh T]

On 4/1/2021 at 10:03 AM, jacobsaunders said:

Seitz, sometimes spelt Seiz was quite a dynasty of Mittenwald makers, all the way down to the 20thC. Since practically the whole village made violins in the 18^th C., and they were all related to each other/worked for each other, it is a fools errand, trying to recognise the individuals involved, and one is forced to rely on an authentic looking label. Unfortunately the advert doesn’t show a picture of the label. I believe one can see that it is from Mittenwald. I repaired one some years ago, which is now owned by a gentleman in Hungary, to his satisfaction. The first thing I would do with it, would be to remove the doorstep of a fingerboard, and I wonder where they get their specifications from

You should put “Seiz” into the search function (top right of the page) if you haven’t found any reading stuff about it

That's very insightful, much appreciated! Thank you.