Who signed and dated this violin?

[Guido]

One of my favourite annoyances. Decent violin loses ID in favour of turning fake Italian.

This one is signed and dated to the inside top, so maybe the ID can be recovered?

It's a long shot for sure, but maybe someone recognises the style of the violin and/or the signature.

I got the violin in Germany and suspect it may have come from Eastern Europe.

Couple of points to note:

- Inside mould construction with back pins cut away half by purfling and linings let into blocks.

- Edge overstand rather large and somewhat variable.

- Purfling strip at the lower rib seam.

P.S.: I think the inscription is the maker. 1988 is reasonable for the violin and it is free of repairs and was probably never opened since new.

 

[Blank face]

Can't help with the inscription, but with a modern violin (post WW 2) I wouldn't rely on something like inserted linings or half cut pins to make conclusions about the construction method. They all knew how to imitate such features when using different methods. Therefore it could have been made nearly everywhere between Bubenreuth, Budapest and Reghin I'm supposing.

[Blank face]

On a second sight I'm wondering if it started with more of the reddish varnish as it's still visible in the channeling at the egdes and was somehow stripped later?

[Rothwein]

It looks like it says "Adelle." 

I would have liked to see it in full varnish before the red was taken off.

[Guido]

11 hours ago, Blank face said:

Can't help with the inscription, but with a modern violin (post WW 2) I wouldn't rely on something like inserted linings or half cut pins to make conclusions about the construction method. They all knew how to imitate such features when using different methods. Therefore it could have been made nearly everywhere between Bubenreuth, Budapest and Reghin I'm supposing.

I agree that any construction method can be made to look like another type, but at some point I have to wonder: the easiest way to fake an inside mould construction would certainly be to simply construct the violin on an inside mould. But of course then we might call it a fake outside mould, coz, hey, its got to be fake somehow, right?

[Guido]

11 hours ago, Blank face said:

On a second sight I'm wondering if it started with more of the reddish varnish as it's still visible in the channeling at the egdes and was somehow stripped later?

 

11 hours ago, Rothwein said:

It looks like it says "Adelle." 

I would have liked to see it in full varnish before the red was taken off.

I note that probably upwards of 99% of all violins posted on MN recently have been stripped and revarnished.

This one here, I would argue, has not been altered and is simply the makers attempt at some shading.

[Ron1]

Of course that is original shading.  It has never been stripped and re-varnished.

[zhiyi_zhang617]

Likely an eastern European, possibly a Czech. Nice wood and quality job, with a couple of minor blemishes, e.g., small repair of bottom plate connecting to the bottom rib below the endpin, and very tiny bushing of D-peg hole 

[Blank face]

8 hours ago, Guido said:

I note that probably upwards of 99% of all violins posted on MN recently have been stripped and revarnished.

This one here, I would argue, has not been altered and is simply the makers attempt at some shading.

Yes, that's a valid observation! The reason might be that it's much more easy to alter the varnish than any other feature of a violin. Especially at trade violins varnish might appear dull, chippy or in other ways unattractive, worn and faded so that there was obviously always a big temptation to change it into something what was supposed to look more attractive in the eyes of potential buyers. Also a bright and shiny appearance was often more desirable than a scary with wear and incrustiations, sunken dirt etc., not to mention all the dark varnishes of certain German schools.

In East Europe seems to exist a real industry specialized in cannibalizing old trade instruments and turn them into something "italianized", using revarnishing and combining old and new parts. But this is a very old practice also in former centuries. Another point is that it is much more easy to hide a badly executed repair under a new varnish than to make it proper with a matching touch up.

Even in Maestronet we can read several threads where there are proposals to strip and revarnish an old violin which looks unpleasant to some, especially in regards of the particular Mittenwald/English thick red varnish, which turns easily into a dark and deeply crackled surface.

Regarding the OP, it's difficult to decide by the photos wether it was shaded this (somehow odd looking) way or was stripped later, therefore I wrote that I'm wondering about it. At least it looks very unusual, maybe somebody tried to imitate the look of an older stripped instrument? OTOH, like I wrote above, it is a common practice to "Italianize" a violin trying to make the varnish look more golden, and at some points the surface has a certain "orange peel" look, another indication that it could have been treated with alcohol or some chemicals. But it could also be an effect of the photos only

[Guido]

On 3/25/2021 at 9:23 AM, zhiyi_zhang617 said:

Likely an eastern European, possibly a Czech. Nice wood and quality job, with a couple of minor blemishes, e.g., small repair of bottom plate connecting to the bottom rib below the endpin, and very tiny bushing of D-peg hole 

I find Czech makers are generally very professional and often rather "clean", and more recent generations seem to have no shortage of professional tuition to continue the tradition.

My violin on the other hand is actually quite idiosyncratic for lack of a better word. I was thinking towards Budapest, where expression seems a bit more free; but I lack any meaningful experience with that corner of the world.

[Guido]

On 3/25/2021 at 4:46 PM, Blank face said:

In East Europe seems to exist a real industry specialized in cannibalizing old trade instruments and turn them into something "italianized", using revarnishing and combining old and new parts.

I'm quite aware and sorry, I didn't mean to sound defensive.

[Blank face]

7 hours ago, Guido said:

I'm quite aware and sorry, I didn't mean to sound defensive.

No defense taken. As I tried to point out, it would be necessary to examine more details of construction, varnish etc. to get a clearer picture, but most probably it could be hard to find a clear attribution without a genuine signed reference instrument. At least it looks built decent and in good condition otherwise.