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Violin ID, French?


Danios
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Could I trouble you all for some help on an ID and relative time frame for this violin?  Label reads “copie de Jean Baptiste Vuillaume a Paris, Rue Croix des Petits Champs” but I don’t see any other obvious identifiers.  
 

Thanks for your time4EDC9911-D7B3-4782-8247-35A976912B29.thumb.jpeg.2b782be9d98a8efbcc469bacc7ba86d5.jpeg4EDC9911-D7B3-4782-8247-35A976912B29.thumb.jpeg.2b782be9d98a8efbcc469bacc7ba86d5.jpegEB5431E4-3FD3-45C9-9744-63390F9CFE67.thumb.jpeg.16493e041ad0fcd84e58b6569218d10c.jpeg9BE91519-D346-4ACA-8DBA-869DC94BD466.thumb.jpeg.8e4751914b8475b220bbaa46ea072cf9.jpeg

 

 

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1 hour ago, Danios said:

That’s too bad.  It was sold to me as French by a seller based in Toulouse, France.  Relatively inexpensive so not really a loss in that respect but frustrating.  

This seller from Toulouse usually uses ebay to market his wares.   If that is the place you bought from,and it is very recent, you may be able to get a refund through ebay for it being wrongly  described  as French. At the very least leave bad feedback for others to see.

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6 hours ago, Danios said:

That’s too bad.  It was sold to me as French by a seller based in Toulouse, France.  Relatively inexpensive so not really a loss in that respect but frustrating.  

It's not clear why an inexpensive German violin is a disappointment next to an inexpensive French one.  Were you paying extra for "Frenchness"?  

How is it as a violin?  

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21 minutes ago, J-G said:

It's not clear why an inexpensive German violin is a disappointment next to an inexpensive French one.  Were you paying extra for "Frenchness"?  

How is it as a violin?  

It is disappointing because it is not what it was portrayed to be and it does seem that generally French violins seem to be more expensive than their German counterparts.

It plays decently.  Nothing out of this world but nice tone.  

 

 

 

 

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Although it will change nothing now, it would have been better to ask first, before buying.

These shysters are making a packet out of this, and buying from them just encourages them more, and for others to do the same.
While these instruments may not be selling at high prices, they are higher than they should be, and when you consider the numbers of instruments they are selling, with a few hundred euros extra on each one, it soon mounts up.

I think most people realize they have been done over eventually, but just swallow the loss because it seems not worth the hassle for a few hundred, particularly when dealing with international shipping. All of this is driven by the bargain hunter desire, and the sellers totally exploit it.
People could go to a shop, or get some instruments shipped on a no obligation free trial, but it seems now everyone is becoming an expert from the internet, and think they have found a score on eBay.

Referring to these people as "sellers" is a disservice to others. They are crooks, and nothing more.

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Depends on the price really. 

Just because some seller in the South of France is selling a Markneukirchen or Schönbach violin with a faux French label for £400 or whatever on ebay doesn't mean they are crooks.

These are nice violins. Really, what's the problem if the price is good?

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Please can you enlighten me on how you have ruled out that it isn't one of the Mirecourt Vuillame 'copies' by the likes of the Labert-Humbert factory, without looking inside? It would also be good to see the neck root/button and a front on view of the scroll, too.

I see flat eyes to the scroll and overhangs on the corners. Corners are also squarish on the back, at least. OK, the purfling is wide in the middle but did the Mirecourt factories always use the same proportions in their purfling or could that be a feature that was copied from an unusual original or altered on different models?

 

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4 hours ago, Bob K said:

Please can you enlighten me on how you have ruled out that it isn't one of the Mirecourt Vuillame 'copies' by the likes of the Labert-Humbert factory, without looking inside? It would also be good to see the neck root/button and a front on view of the scroll, too.

I see flat eyes to the scroll and overhangs on the corners. Corners are also squarish on the back, at least. OK, the purfling is wide in the middle but did the Mirecourt factories always use the same proportions in their purfling or could that be a feature that was copied from an unusual original or altered on different models?

 

This what you are looking for Bob?  Appreciate it

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, sospiri said:

Really, what's the problem if the price is good?

They are deliberate forgeries, that is the problem. 

If they're such "nice violins," there would be no reason to add fake labels and brands to jack up the price.

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17 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:

They are deliberate forgeries, that is the problem. 

If they're such "nice violins," there would be no reason to add fake labels and brands to jack up the price.

Deliberate forgeries? They were made 90 to 100 years ago. You don't know who stuck the label in or when.

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10 minutes ago, sospiri said:

Deliberate forgeries? They were made 90 to 100 years ago. You don't know who stuck the label in or when.

Yes, deliberate forgeries. They are buying cheap modern violins (Romanian or Chinese), taking the tops off, adding labels and brands, tarting them up appropriately, thus turning them into forgeries to sell to unsuspecting and gullible buyers.

They are not "nice" violins. 

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5 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:

Yes, deliberate forgeries. They are buying cheap modern violins (Romanian or Chinese), taking the tops off, adding labels and brands, tarting them up appropriately, thus turning them into forgeries to sell to unsuspecting and gullible buyers.

They are not "nice" violins. 

George, this is an old violin made in Schönbach or Markneukirchen in the 20s  or 30s

What are you going on about forgeries?

 

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7 minutes ago, sospiri said:

George, this is an old violin made in Schönbach or Markneukirchen in the 20s  or 30s

You sure about that? Seller said it was French. It has a French label in it. How are you so sure it is 100+ years old? It was purchased from a crook.

You can't be sure about anything from these crooks. They are good at what they do.

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